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the problem with domain league and a suggestion
http://thefarwilds.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=2170		 Page 1 of 2
Author:  krakhoar [ Wed Sep 01, 2010 3:05 pm ]
Post subject:  the problem with domain league and a suggestion
Ever since I started playing, players in domain league have complained about one of two things: not getting enough games or being constantly pestered to play. Obviously there is some problem in how games are allocated... since players have a choice of who to play, stronger players tend to gang up on weaker players and shy away from playing each other.

Frankly, this annoys the hell out of me. I just watched someone most people consider one of the best players in the game playing helpicantfly, the lowest rated player in the current league. After beating him easily, this player immediately asked help to play another game; even though voices and I were both watching, he declined to ask us instead. This type of bombardment is a good way to make players just beginning to invest in the game quit.

So... I think it would be better if at least who you've played in domain is public. I'm posting who I've played in my profile and I suggest others do the same... unless they have something to be ashamed of.
Author:  Atahualpa [ Wed Sep 01, 2010 3:28 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: the problem with domain league and a suggestion
Yeah... If it weren't for domain packs, I'd never join domain league. Waste of 50g, the annoyance of having the play limited, the annoyance of having people bug you to play your games.

Unfortunately, not everybody experiences what you describe, hoar... You see, the only people that get bugged are those of us who suck or have low scores... The rest, well, they're the ones that keep asking for the games.

Frankly, I've never had a problem finding domain games, there's way too many of them, in fact.
Author:  queeshai [ Wed Sep 01, 2010 3:41 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: the problem with domain league and a suggestion
Atahualpa wrote:
Yeah... If it weren't for domain packs, I'd never join domain league. Waste of 50g, the annoyance of having the play limited, the annoyance of having people bug you to play your games.


my previous offer stands for you and for anyone else -- you pay the entry fee, you keep the cards, I pay you 50g, I play the games, I keep the prize.

krakhoar wrote:
Ever since I started playing, players in domain league have complained about one of two things: not getting enough games or being constantly pestered to play. Obviously there is some problem in how games are allocated... since players have a choice of who to play, stronger players tend to gang up on weaker players and shy away from playing each other.


if you are a newer/weaker player joining domain, you should expect to lose all your games anyway. in fact, it is probably better for you to play the best players since you stand to learn the most.

personally, I try to play as balanced a schedule as possible. in the most recently completed domain, this was difficult due to five people avoiding me (all with limited ratings over 1600). kudos to Huger, CaveTroll, nayen, and helpicantfly for always being willing to play.
Author:  Keyser [ Wed Sep 01, 2010 4:44 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: the problem with domain league and a suggestion
I didn't get all my games in during the last domain. I couldn't get many games, despite asking just about everyone I saw online during times I could play. Unfortunately, the times I was on to play didn't seem to work with most others this past domain. I even tried to play CT, but either 1) wasn't able to play when he was on or 2) was able to play but he seemed to be afk.

I think I still have 10 unplayed games.

My suggestion is one that has been suggested before: Have domain queue work like "anyone" queue and block the display of who is in th domain lobby/domain queue. That way, you don't know who is waiting to pounce!
Author:  Atahualpa [ Thu Sep 02, 2010 1:02 am ]
Post subject:  Re: the problem with domain league and a suggestion
queeshai wrote:
my previous offer stands for you and for anyone else -- you pay the entry fee, you keep the cards, I pay you 50g, I play the games, I keep the prize.


If I ever buy gold again, I'll hit you up on that... it should cover my ancient request for domain packs in the market. Where were you in the 8 domains I bought into and didn't play...
Author:  Dublone1870 [ Thu Sep 02, 2010 8:37 am ]
Post subject:  Re: the problem with domain league and a suggestion
I've played Domain twice, and thoug it somewhat worked and I had fun, the score system struck me as a bit clumsy. Why would I want to play Altren in this system? There must be some way to make it rewarding to play the stronger players, and still avoid alt abuse.

I'm thinking something along the lines of bonus points at the end of the league: the win ratio of every player is calculated, and every match you've won gives you a bonus of x times the win ration of the player you won against.

Actually, the bonus could even be applied to every game you've played, winning or losing.

The downside would be that it gets a lot more obscure what position you have in that last week. There could also be new "preferred opponents" problems, though reduced.
Author:  Dublone1870 [ Thu Sep 02, 2010 9:55 am ]
Post subject:  Re: the problem with domain league and a suggestion
Of course, the bonus could be applied continuosly. Players would have to get used to see their current score float a bit up and down though, even when they're not playing themselves :P
Author:  Atahualpa [ Thu Sep 02, 2010 10:00 am ]
Post subject:  Re: the problem with domain league and a suggestion
I think you have to be forced to play everyone once... so more like a round robin. If for whatever reason, a pair can't play each other during a certain interval, then both get 1 point (double default).

Also, I found myself in a situation last domain that was kinda odd. I was ranked enough to win the lowest gold reward (41g yay!). I had like 6 games remaining and only needed to play one game to ensure my gold. Keyser asks for a game... He has eleven games remaining and is better at limited formats and from what I had seen in a previous interval, had a better deck.

So, I figure, why not, get my game over with and play Keyser. He asked for a second game, I begged off.

Later on, I scanned the rankings... For some strange reason, I was ranked above Keyser. Playing against him, win or lose was actually a bad thing for me!!! Why? Every point he gets brings him closer to taking away my gold. With his eleven games, he wouldn't even need to win any to overtake me.

So, it's not just avoiding "better" players/decks/domains that affects play but the actual system, itself. Had the league still been on now, what reason would I have to play Keyser again?

Although forcing games as I suggested won't address the problem of avoiding matches, it will, at least reward you for being one of the "feared" players.

--------------------------------------------

Another situation.

So I'm sitting in the lobby, no intentions whatsoever of playing domain. I had blown Queeshai off a few hours earlier because... well, you know...

Anyway.

Queeshai asks for a game. At this point, I'm too embarassed to blow him off again and say, what the heck, might as well, but only one. I'll probably lose and have to admit, more than half of my domain games this month I just resigned as soon as things started to get bad. I just don't care enough to waste my efforts trying to win.

So, I give Queeshai a game... then, what do I notice in the lobby... He's like 1 point below Baron_Voices. With the league ending in a few short hours, all of a sudden it's likely that the decision of who wins top prize falls to me... Who should I screw? BV or Queesh? Hmmmm... Regardless, I can't say I cared either way. I was way to embarassed already (note: this was before Hoar's post), so I played.

Bottom line... if I had wanted BV to win the prize, then all I have to do is avoid Queesh, if I had wanted Queesh to win, then all I had to do was play him twice. So... people also play/avoid domain games to favor their friends :)

That is all.
Author:  Dublone1870 [ Thu Sep 02, 2010 1:46 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: the problem with domain league and a suggestion
Atahualpa wrote:
I think you have to be forced to play everyone once... so more like a round robin. If for whatever reason, a pair can't play each other during a certain interval, then both get 1 point (double default).


I think the main problem with that would be that unless you start playing in the first days, you'll lose a lot of points. Stragglers can't catch up, so they will hesitate to join Domain at all.
Author:  Atahualpa [ Thu Sep 02, 2010 2:01 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: the problem with domain league and a suggestion
This is actually the first league I've seen that allows people to join in the latter stages...

Then start a new league every week, if that's the problem... or start one every 2 weeks... or make the leagues shorter.

Seriously, though... using the current format... what chance do stragglers have to catch up? Even the guys who join in week one and don't play till week two or three because their deck "sucks" can't keep up very well. People complain about not being able to find games... how do you think a straggler is going to get twice as many games in a single week? Easy if your name is Atahualpa or HelpICantFly...

What about Keyser who started later? He completely missed out. What about Nayen who disappeared during the second half? He completely missed out. I joined during week four... I didn't even bother playing, not only because I'd prolly lose but because even if I did the fabled "lose all your games and win gold (lies)" I wouldn't get all my games. And that's coming from a guy everybody wants to play against (except Keyser last month).

Stragglers come in at a disadvantage, if they don't want the disadvantage then they can show up on time or they can catch the next league. That's how it works in real life, you're late, suffer the consequences.

In fact, jed could even set it up as a preregistration thing where you sign up on week zero, get all your cards, build your deck, wait a few days and then the tournament actually starts. Nobody else can enter during week one. They gotta wait for the next league to set up.

Actually, back in the day when I would actually pay for this, I'd have preferred new leagues weekly...
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