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 Post subject: Re: Suggestion for corpses in general
 Post Posted: Fri Feb 06, 2009 10:31 pm 
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akkmedk wrote:
Ok, what I am I missing about this idea? What is the detriment to a 5 turn corpse decomposition? The only card instantly gimped is tortured ghost, which at this point has almost no weakness. Claimed with Blood enchants a land space, so a corpse decomposing doesn't really matter. The 5 turn decomp simply puts pressure on people who rely on corpses in their strategy to use them like the resource they are. Right now there isn't a downside to corpseplay at all. When my deck has run out of creatures people who play with corpses still have options.


Gimps Carrion Eater pretty bad. Gimps Forecasting Ragnarok, Gather Spirits, All Hallows Eve, Decomposition, Reanimate, Death Mark, Journeyman Necromancer, Haunt, Ghost Crypt, and Beckon the Bones.

Basically it's a giant kick in the nuts to DL, which they don't need considering the current state of MF and now Elemental decks.

If your issue is with Tortured Ghost, there are ways of dealing with it. . . ever seen one hit with Horns to Hide? (does a ghost even have a hide?) or entangle? Or Lysis? or Topological Paradox? Or Charm? Or Ascent?

I mean, it has its weaknesses, and it isn't cheap to cast. And yes, it's a bitch to deal with, but at least you pull its fangs or lock it to the ground (unlike some of our discussions of flying creatures. . .).

As for All Hallows Eve, I'll admit, it can be a big problem. But the issue there is that there needs to be more means of removing global and local enchantments that are available to factions other than MF, rather than a general corpse nerf.


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 Post subject: Re: Suggestion for corpses in general
 Post Posted: Fri Feb 06, 2009 11:31 pm 
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RedFlag wrote:
akkmedk wrote:
Ok, what I am I missing about this idea? What is the detriment to a 5 turn corpse decomposition? The only card instantly gimped is tortured ghost, which at this point has almost no weakness. Claimed with Blood enchants a land space, so a corpse decomposing doesn't really matter. The 5 turn decomp simply puts pressure on people who rely on corpses in their strategy to use them like the resource they are. Right now there isn't a downside to corpseplay at all. When my deck has run out of creatures people who play with corpses still have options.


Gimps Carrion Eater pretty bad. Gimps Forecasting Ragnarok, Gather Spirits, All Hallows Eve, Decomposition, Reanimate, Death Mark, Journeyman Necromancer, Haunt, Ghost Crypt, and Beckon the Bones.

Basically it's a giant kick in the nuts to DL, which they don't need considering the current state of MF and now Elemental decks.

If your issue is with Tortured Ghost, there are ways of dealing with it. . . ever seen one hit with Horns to Hide? (does a ghost even have a hide?) or entangle? Or Lysis? or Topological Paradox? Or Charm? Or Ascent?

I mean, it has its weaknesses, and it isn't cheap to cast. And yes, it's a bitch to deal with, but at least you pull its fangs or lock it to the ground (unlike some of our discussions of flying creatures. . .).

As for All Hallows Eve, I'll admit, it can be a big problem. But the issue there is that there needs to be more means of removing global and local enchantments that are available to factions other than MF, rather than a general corpse nerf.


Carrion Feeder - Doesn't gimp at all. Creates pressure to use the carrion feeder, which since now only costs dimming to gobble seems reasonable.
Ragnarok - Not really gimping, just possibly reducing the number of playable corpses. I'm assuming this card resurrects all creatures to their original controllers, so this card is already balanced and a set decomp number will not throw off this balance any more than a general creature imbalance in a game.
Gather Spirits - This card is free flux on demand, adding a little pressure to use it actually balances it against someone holding it in their hand with an eye on a corpse waiting until they absolutely need the flux.
Hallow's eve - i guess it gimps a little, but i've never seen this card played to begin with. it's a vision trick, and off the top of my head doesn't seem unreasonable that this would have a time limit imposed, considering vision is so important to the strategy of the game and there is again only one disenchant and only with one domain.
Decomp - draw a card mechanic, not gimped.
Reanimate - For 3 flux and 3 domain you can take any of my creatures you've already killed and turn it against me? Including creatures that you insta-killed?
Death Mark - For all the complaining about Training i've heard on this board this surprises me. Again, for the cost and abilities of this card a time limit seems reasonable.
Journeyman Necro - Since it only costs two to create a zombie and you're guaranteed 2 flux per turn this guy guarantees you a creature if you can see a corpse.
haunt - not really effected by change, spawns on corpse but corpse is removed anyway, so again, creates pressure where none existed before to utilize resources wisely.
Ghost Crypt - not effected at all and probably shouldn't have been mentioned. Haunts are created when the corpse is, destroying the corpse instantly.
Beckon the bones - Yet another creature that isn't a creature.

The point i'm making here is that dl have access to a vast resource of corpses and a little nudge to do something about it wouldn't hurt as much as everyone seems to think. With two 40 card decks playing, with sunkayu's suggestion of 50% creature ratio means that hypothetically 40 corpses could come into play at some point in the game. Unless corpse play is going to spread to other domains this is a huge well of strength to draw on for one domain.

In tactics and strategy everything is a resource, the time on the clock, the flux, the domain, the vision, the terrain. All can help or hurt but only one domain has access to the near endless supply of bodies.


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 Post subject: Re: Suggestion for corpses in general
 Post Posted: Sat Feb 07, 2009 5:28 am 
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Location: Madison, WI
I'm a little surprised people seem so averse to just providing the other domains with a couple cards that also make use of corpses (see my previous post). This would be the simplest solution... especially since Jed is currently working on the next set. I imagine giving corpses lifespan would be a fairly significant code change, not to mention a huge balancing change that will ripple through a lot of cards (despite what Akk says, I think this will nerf a lot of the cards on that list).

But if this change does go through, I think ~ten rounds is a more reasonable number. Five is REALLY short.


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 Post subject: Re: Suggestion for corpses in general
 Post Posted: Sun Feb 08, 2009 4:49 am 
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Red Flag is right, everything get's totally destroyed in a DL deck when you do this. There is absolutely no reason TO create corpse decay. Let them litter the field.

What you may want to do (if this isn't already the case) is to treat corpses as space enchantments. That way, other cards beyond decomp. can remove them/alter them/do what you want. The flip to this is that the Sylvan Palace becomes incredibly more overpowered.

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-Minds


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 Post subject: Re: Suggestion for corpses in general
 Post Posted: Sun Feb 08, 2009 5:20 am 
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mindstheatre wrote:
Red Flag is right, everything get's totally destroyed in a DL deck when you do this. There is absolutely no reason TO create corpse decay. Let them litter the field.

What you may want to do (if this isn't already the case) is to treat corpses as space enchantments. That way, other cards beyond decomp. can remove them/alter them/do what you want. The flip to this is that the Sylvan Palace becomes incredibly more overpowered.
mindstheatre wrote:
Red Flag is right, everything get's totally destroyed in a DL deck when you do this. There is absolutely no reason TO create corpse decay. Let them litter the field.

What you may want to do (if this isn't already the case) is to treat corpses as space enchantments. That way, other cards beyond decomp. can remove them/alter them/do what you want. The flip to this is that the Sylvan Palace becomes incredibly more overpowered.


Maybe just give a certain class of creatures the ability to attack and destroy corpses, and sprinkle those throughout the different factions.


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 Post subject: Re: Suggestion for corpses in general
 Post Posted: Sun Feb 08, 2009 7:29 pm 
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Joined: Sat Nov 01, 2008 2:51 am
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Location: Madison, WI
Decomposition is kind of a lame card, but it sets a precedent. Here are my ideas for other NON DL cards that make use of corpses:

viewtopic.php?f=3&t=679


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 Post subject: Re: Suggestion for corpses in general
 Post Posted: Sun Feb 08, 2009 9:09 pm 
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Joined: Tue Nov 04, 2008 12:05 am
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Location: South of Sanity
Only good use I've seen for Decomp was a game when was playing an Elder Ent deck and there were two decent sized forests with a one-hex gap.. so I let a Scout die in that gap and decompsed him to double my ent's attack... Honestly I don't think I've ever seen it played other than that....


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 Post subject: Re: Suggestion for corpses in general
 Post Posted: Mon Feb 09, 2009 6:15 am 
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Joined: Fri Nov 21, 2008 10:05 am
Posts: 55
Location: Ukraine
Well, decomposition might be pretty useful if you throw in some tanglers. Although it's rather poor combo.


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 Post subject: Re: Suggestion for corpses in general
 Post Posted: Mon Feb 09, 2009 7:37 pm 
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Joined: Fri Oct 31, 2008 4:21 pm
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MistStlkr wrote:
Only good use I've seen for Decomp was a game when was playing an Elder Ent deck and there were two decent sized forests with a one-hex gap.. so I let a Scout die in that gap and decompsed him to double my ent's attack... Honestly I don't think I've ever seen it played other than that....


I've used it on Tortured Ghost before.


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