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 Post subject: Balancing Changes
 Post Posted: Wed Jan 28, 2009 11:34 pm 
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Joined: Tue Jan 08, 2008 2:07 am
Posts: 1045
Ok sorry guys to keep changing things. I know it is getting annoying. But this process is almost over.
There were a lot of changes and a pretty major change to make dual domain decks a lot more feasible. Basically the higher domain cards can in many cases will now take the main domain and any other domain. So for example Great Bow takes 2 Sylvan domain and 1 of any other kind of domain. Autodraw also now gives you a domain building only if a card in your hand needs it and of the domain that you need.


* Storm Factory costs 2MXX and ability slightly different
* Dag Cannon costs 6MXX
* Beacon of Celedor lost a Health
* electric storm 3EX
* planar intersection fire 4EX
* twisting intentions 2EX
* erg geyser 2EX
* Light of day 2S has Lifespan 2
* Dusk Efreet reworked
* tamed Frost wyrm lost one point of attack,speed and vision
* sphere of radiance now has 2 vision
* Thistle falcon costs 2S and lost 1 health
* Lava Blister 1MX now
* Claimed with blood 4DDX
* Mountain Blessing now 1MXX
* draknor's chain is now reconnect-able once one end dies
* Carrion Feeder doesn't cost 1 flux to gobble a corpse
* Thunderhead Reach now 5EX and has speed of 1
* Alabaster Pantheon only gives one domain
* Added Form of Vigor finally


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 Post subject: Re: Balancing Changes
 Post Posted: Thu Jan 29, 2009 12:05 am 
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Joined: Tue Nov 04, 2008 12:05 am
Posts: 385
Location: South of Sanity
Changing Pantheon again was a bad idea I think. If we only get one domain type from it can we at least get toggling domain for it back??


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 Post subject: Re: Balancing Changes
 Post Posted: Thu Jan 29, 2009 12:16 am 
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Joined: Tue Nov 04, 2008 12:05 am
Posts: 385
Location: South of Sanity
Mahals are completely screwed with the new autodraw as well.. what the hell is the point if you can't autodraw a building while it's on the board to use it's vision? Now I can't get a building until it's dead except through dumb luck which means having to rebalance the deck for more buildings...


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 Post subject: Re: Balancing Changes
 Post Posted: Thu Jan 29, 2009 4:34 am 
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Joined: Sun Nov 02, 2008 10:04 pm
Posts: 348
The autodraw works differently now, as I'm sure you've noticed. It's not updated on the 'how to play' page yet, but hopefully jed will be able to shed light on the exact mechanic.

Basically, it now looks to see what cards you have in hand and what domain you need to cast those cards and will feed you the domain you need most. But don't quote me on that.


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 Post subject: Re: Balancing Changes
 Post Posted: Thu Jan 29, 2009 1:57 pm 
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Joined: Sun Apr 20, 2008 5:42 am
Posts: 64
How about we quote jed on it.
jed wrote:
Autodraw also now gives you a domain building only if a card in your hand needs it and of the domain that you need.

_________________
We accept the kind that jingles but prefer the kind that folds.

TFW info


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 Post subject: Re: Balancing Changes
 Post Posted: Thu Jan 29, 2009 4:56 pm 
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Joined: Sun Nov 02, 2008 10:04 pm
Posts: 348
Ok, so I've encountered what Mist is talking about and have to agree autodraw right now is terrible. It used to be that you'd draw a domain building if you didn't have one constructing or in hand. Now it only draws one if you need for the cards in your hand.

There's a subtle difference that has a huge impact on play: if you only have 2-domain cards and you have 2 buildings you won't draw any more buildings. so unless you stock your deck with buildings, you won't have any for when you need them. someone just knock out your starting base? well, you lose the spot even if you have 7+ flux saved because you don't have a building in hand. Want to expand to a new flux? Too bad, no buildings in hand.

I don't know if this dramatic change is intentional, but it basically gives multi-domain decks a huge advantage because they're more likely to always need buildings (and thus be able to draw them). And they're capable of putting many more domain buildings in a deck, giving a greater chance of drawing them.

at the very least: everyone be aware and start packing waaay more buildings in your deck.


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 Post subject: Re: Balancing Changes
 Post Posted: Thu Jan 29, 2009 6:48 pm 
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Joined: Tue Nov 04, 2008 12:05 am
Posts: 385
Location: South of Sanity
Sun and I happened to be working on a dual-domain, building-based deck focused around pantheon.. which is now completely borked because A) I can't draw the buildings because nothing in the deck required more than two domain and B) the pantheon can't work for both domains. I'd really have liked to see that deck in play, but ah well. I understand it's a beta and changes happen, and minor tweaks I understand but such a drastic change as this past one kinda hurts..


Jed and Co.: I've been a game coder. I majored in Comp Sci back in The Day™. I understand how much work and thought you guys all put in to this. I appreciate the effort and time and work and sore foreheads from the head-beating-against-the-wall-because-you-missed-a-semicolon-somewhere nights and all. I really do understand the work you are putting into it. But it is a bit disheartening when you spend hours\days building, designing and testing a unique deck to finally get it to a playable state that may actually have a shot at winning a game and then all of the mechanics change on you without notice and the deck's basic function is no longer valid. Could we perhaps get advanced notice on these changes, maybe a day or so before they go into effect, so we can plan for them and reevaluate our decks with the new changes in mind and plan for them?

[EDIT=add] On another note, when we get the new updates like this, could you possibly put what they were changed from? I can't be the only one with swiss-cheese brain who stares at these lists and tries to remember what they were before.... [/EDIT]


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 Post subject: Re: Balancing Changes
 Post Posted: Thu Jan 29, 2009 7:22 pm 
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Joined: Sun Nov 02, 2008 10:04 pm
Posts: 348
the pantheon change was necessary considering how powerful it would have made multi-domain decks with the new mechanic. however, it really should have had its flux cost cut down a bit too to compensate.

I understand you're frustrated, but it would seem to me that any multi-domain deck is now much easier to play and with fairly minor alterations you should be able to get it to where you want it.


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 Post subject: Re: Balancing Changes
 Post Posted: Thu Jan 29, 2009 7:39 pm 
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Joined: Tue Nov 04, 2008 12:05 am
Posts: 385
Location: South of Sanity
I'm sure it helps in general.. I had a dual domain where nothing cost more than two domain.. so the pantheons were a key to it.. Something else will be figured out, I'm sure.

If I understand this correctly, the new auto-draw gives you whichever domain you need to cast what is in your hand, correct? If that is the case the pantheons are of extremely little, if any, use at all... the only thing they do is let you pick which domain to get, but they aren't a base, they have no ability, they don't have extended vision. They are a base.. without the base. With the new auto-draw mechanic, as I understand it, in a dual-domain deck you will always draw the domain you need.. so what is the point of the Pantheon?


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 Post subject: Re: Balancing Changes
 Post Posted: Sat Jan 31, 2009 9:41 pm 
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Joined: Sun Nov 02, 2008 10:04 pm
Posts: 348
I don't know if this is intentional, but Hadarck's Throne no longer has salvage (did before the patch).

Granted it usually wasn't of much use but it does make weenie rushes a whole lot more effective. Also it and mahal are now the only two domain buildings that don't give salvage. Mahal, I can understand.. but I would even argue that it should get salvage. It wouldn't gain any flux if it's destroyed normally, but would make it a lot more playable and have it function more like a normal domain building.


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