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 Post subject: Autodraw
 Post Posted: Fri Jan 30, 2009 6:55 pm 
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Joined: Tue Jan 08, 2008 2:07 am
Posts: 1045
Just to clarify, Autodraw now works like:
Whenever you draw a card you will get the top one from your army except for in certain situations.
1) If you don't have a Base in play, or in your hand you will draw the first available one from your army if you have the domain for it.

2) If you have a card in hand that you don't have the domain for and you don't have a card that gives you that domain in hand that you can play you will draw a card from your army that gives you that domain if you have one.

3) If you don't have a card that gives you domain in hand that you can play. You will draw the first available one from your army.

This means if you are playing a Dark Legion and Sylvan Army and you will draw a Grove if you don't have the Sylvan domain needed to cast some Sylvan card in your hand.


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 Post subject: Re: Autodraw
 Post Posted: Fri Jan 30, 2009 10:50 pm 
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Joined: Sat Nov 01, 2008 7:14 am
Posts: 89
Location: Victoria, BC
Given the problem of not drawing buildings needed to cap flux points when the domain requirements for the cards in hand are otherwise satisfied is there any consideration being given to the option of autodrawing any building in your deck if you do not have one in hand?

Or is this an expected facet of deck building? This change, good in many ways, detrimentally impacts decks larger than 40 cards unless you are putting in an equivalent, likely unnecessary, number of buildings to compensate.


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 Post subject: Re: Autodraw
 Post Posted: Fri Jan 30, 2009 11:15 pm 
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Joined: Mon Nov 03, 2008 7:34 am
Posts: 41
I thought it was a problem too until i realized it was previously too easy to scam the autodraw to get a beneficial card. it seems if we want a random turn based strategy card game we need an autodraw that is smart enough to give us cards in game/fun killing situations but also smart enough to step out of the way of a random deck of cards and let fate take it's course.


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 Post subject: Re: Autodraw
 Post Posted: Tue Mar 31, 2009 6:17 pm 
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Joined: Thu Mar 19, 2009 10:28 pm
Posts: 64
Hi. I just started playing this game a week and a half ago, and I have some concerns about this rule.

First, a question: what is the intent of this rule? To eliminate some of the luck factor from the game? To give a player who is in an inferior position a chance to catch up by ensuring that player has access to domain in all their spells?

In my experience, the most common situations in which the autodraw rule comes up are the following:

1. In Sealed and Draft games: One player takes a slight lead by getting a well advantage early (usually by some card that skips the construction site process, such as legs of baba-yaga, thunderhead reach, stringing together bamboo watch towers, galom's prospectors, you get the idea) and uses the autodraw rule to get a domain building with salvage nearly every turn thus making it nearly impossible for the player who for whatever reason fell slightly behind to catch up. i have lost games where my opponent played zero creatures because the terrain prevented me from reaching their older buildings, and they played 2 or 3 removal spells. i repeat: I have lost games where my opponent has played zero creatures, or one creature that had no impact whatsoever on the game.

2. Much more rare: A player is backed into a corner but strings together the domain buildings they need to cast some spells and recover, thus making a blowout game closer.

I do want to note that in constructed this isn't a problem at all. You can easily build a constructed deck with this rule in mind, ways to deal with your opponent abusing the rule, etc. But in limited games you have noticeably less options, less ways to deal with this kind of play. By contrast there are PLENTY of cards in the set that deal with problematic bomb creatures, but there aren't many ways to deal with losing to your opponent's autodraw while he stalls you with removal.


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 Post subject: Re: Autodraw
 Post Posted: Tue Mar 31, 2009 7:13 pm 
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Joined: Fri Nov 21, 2008 10:05 am
Posts: 55
Location: Ukraine
Autodraw is neat feature that protects from "screw" so common to CCG's. It ain't ideal, and got some downsides (anyone who've played with heart of teh mountain in deck must understand me). But it works pretty nice most of the time.

And that "building with salvage" spam issue got many good counters ;) Rushing new salvageables is often not too good idea. Try concetrating on "older" buildings, dropping your own buildings near flux points (yeah, even next to opponents completed one, he can't do much if you got 3 creatures around). Some cards are exceptionally good 'gainst that tactic (Peoples Champion, Heat Wave) Player with zero creatures is SOOO vulnerable (very limited vision is serious weakness, use it by all means ;) )

On other hand, that "build-a-lot" strategy can be much more devastating in constructed, given right support :twisted: That's where sometimes you can't do anything to save yourself from taint of growing megapolis.


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 Post subject: Re: Autodraw
 Post Posted: Tue Mar 31, 2009 9:16 pm 
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Joined: Sat Mar 21, 2009 11:40 pm
Posts: 95
I feel that autodraw ought to have some slight chance of not kicking in. Say a 20-25% chance of just getting your normal draw. This would keep the spirit of the rule in place but perhaps lessen the abuse.


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 Post subject: Re: Autodraw
 Post Posted: Tue Mar 31, 2009 10:06 pm 
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Joined: Sat Feb 28, 2009 5:23 pm
Posts: 22
There's a lot of times I wish there was an secondary type of auto draw choice for creatures. Example: if your hand currently has a domain, but no creatures, then you're next draw would be the next creature in your deck.


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 Post subject: Re: Autodraw
 Post Posted: Wed Apr 01, 2009 4:37 am 
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Joined: Thu Mar 19, 2009 10:28 pm
Posts: 64
the times you wish there was a secondary autodraw are when you are losing and need to draw creatures! the times when the building autodraw saves you, sure, eliminate some luck aspect from the game, but really, this is the only "card" game, including traditional card games, that has a rule like this to avoid the basic luck of a deck of cards.. maybe i just need awhile to get used to it.


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 Post subject: Re: Autodraw
 Post Posted: Wed Apr 01, 2009 12:53 pm 
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Joined: Tue Jan 08, 2008 2:07 am
Posts: 1045
alpha: the main reason for autodraw is that it allows you to not have to stuff your deck with buildings just to be certain you pull domain.

As far as combating building spam... The best thing is to build your own buildings next his flux wells and the other open wells. If he doesn't have creatures then there isn't much he can do about it. if he is dropping 7 flux cost buildings you should be able to be doing something pretty good yourself. Someone with just buildings is so easily avoidable. you should just go around and capture the other wells and ignore him.
And pack cheap buildings!


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 Post subject: Re: Autodraw
 Post Posted: Wed Apr 01, 2009 4:00 pm 
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Joined: Thu Mar 19, 2009 10:28 pm
Posts: 64
well, this is part of why my complain was mostly related to sealed and draft. you have significantly less options in how you build your deck.

like i said, i don't think there's any problem in constructed. i mean, you can just play cards to specifically combat the strategy.

but in sealed or draft, it seems like if you're a *tiny* bit slower to get out of your corner at the beginning, possibly because of the map, possibly because your opponent happened to have one of those strong cards i talked about above, and your card pool didn't happen to have cheap buildings, or any building destruction, or any number of things, you get quickly bowled over 20-0 after thinking you were only 1 turn behind. but actually the suggestions, about trying to spam my own buildings into his flux wells, makes sense. like i said, it's possible that i just need to adjust.

i sort of understand why the autodraw rule exists. basically it eliminates losing a game purely because you failed to draw enough buildings. the question i have is really "why do you want to eliminate that case?" or rather "why do you want to eliminate that case but not other cases of luck?", i.e. if we're eliminating luck, why doesn't everyone just stack their deck at the beginning of each game and see whose deck provides the absolute best draw all the time?...


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