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Whisk Away
http://thefarwilds.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=2010		 Page 1 of 2
Author:  Atahualpa [ Wed Jun 02, 2010 5:26 pm ]
Post subject:  Whisk Away
I played a Sky Cavalier... Opponent played Mind Transplant on it... I played Whisk Away on the Cavalier... Opponent got the flux AND the card... If I had been using those uber-stupid Trade Routes, he'd have been able to cast it instantly... I wish I had some of those uber-powerful Treetop Dominions.
Author:  Zblader [ Wed Jun 02, 2010 8:13 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Whisk Away
Alright alright, calm down. I think this has to do with the fact of who currently owns the creature. If the opponent has your creature as a result of a spell or enchant, it is rightfully theirs until control reverts back to you. So Ascent, Whisk, Belfry etc... will give the creature back to who currently owns it.
Author:  queeshai [ Wed Jun 02, 2010 9:08 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Whisk Away
whisk away is worded differently than ascent in such a way as to make it a viable counter to possession. this is good in my opinion, because I consider possession to be OP. at present, it is also worded to counter mind transplant (but doesn't function that way, as Atahualpa noted).

I think the functionality is correct in this case and the wording is wrong -- otherwise playing whisk away after mind transplant will be a huge swing in advantage, making mind transplant unplayable against CI. perhaps the most interesting "feature" of mind transplant is that it is a severe counter to diplomats and lords ... in the same way that mystic feedback is a severe counter to vessel, weather vane, and, to a lesser extent, trade routes and treetop.
Author:  Altren [ Wed Jun 02, 2010 10:24 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Whisk Away
That was bug. Mind transplant also change Caster of card that is wrong.

About
queeshai wrote:
I think the functionality is correct in this case and the wording is wrong -- otherwise playing whisk away after mind transplant will be a huge swing in advantage, making mind transplant unplayable against CI.
no, it's wrong functionality, because now Mind Transplant is very strong card that have no counters. And by the way - Whisk Away also rocks about Charm. That's strength of Whisk Away.
Author:  CaveTroll [ Thu Jun 03, 2010 11:18 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Whisk Away
Alteren is right. Without whisk away posession and mind transplant would be OP. Maybe they still are.
Author:  yaron [ Thu Jun 03, 2010 2:26 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Whisk Away
Generally I don't think that the solution to OP cards is to have specific counters that turn them into complete train-wrecks. That just turns the game into a die roll: do you happen to have the specific card that destroys the opponent's OP card? You win. Don't have it? You lose.

If a card is OP, it should be changed.

Specifically, I don't think whisk away destroys Possession, just counters it. Player A pays 2 flux for Possession, Player B pays 3 flux to Whisk Away and re-play the creature. Possessing player is actually 1 flux ahead (and the creature is dimmed and back in its base), but that's fair because Possession is 3-domain, Whisk Away just 1-D.

However, it gets crazy with Mind Trasplant.

First, I'm not sure Mind Transplant is overpowered at all. If I pay 7 flux to take a 5 flux creature (assuming a 1-flux creature on my side), that's a 3-flux swing in my favour. But this has a lot of added costs and conditions:

1. Opponent needs to play a 5-flux creature. Not everyone does. If his creatures are small, MT is pretty much a dead card.
2. I need to draw a new weenie, or keep one from the early game (losing whatever damage it could have caused).
3. I need a plan to kill the weenie after the switch, or accept that the opponent gets it.
4. I'm spending 2 cards, but that's fair, because I'm causing s 2-card swing (I'm up a creature, opponent is down a creature).

I could get the same 3-flux swing for much less hassle if I just Entangled your 5-flux creature!

Now lets see what happens when it's Whisked Away (and replayed by opponent):
1. Opponent spends 2 flux and 1 card.
2. I lose a 5-flux creature.
3. Opponent gets a 5-flux creature.

That's an 8-flux swing. No card should be that powerful against another card.

I think that the idea that creatures belong to their current controller for all intents and purposes is a sound one. Anything else opens the door for blowouts like this one, and pretty much kills the entire mechanic of stealing creatures.

If specific cards that steal creatures are too powerful, that's a problem with the cards, not the mechanic.
Author:  Atahualpa [ Fri Jun 04, 2010 3:33 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Whisk Away
Sorry, I'm not really able to focus and couldn't really absorb what was answered. I do generally get what zblader was trying to be patronizing to me about but he seems to have missed the point that Whisk Away's wording returns the flux and card to it's caster's hand. The caster is completely unaffected by control-altering cards.

So, the wording or the effect has to be fixed.
Author:  TehPWNZENATOR [ Fri Jun 04, 2010 6:19 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Whisk Away
Sorry, not really on topic of the original poster, but this thread has been hijacked so I will say this. Mind transplant is, if anything, UP.Definitely not OP. Read yaron's post above. I always have to not only add both glubs and goblin soldiers if I want to use transplants, but also I have to hold on to the first one I draw. Also, I have to pay 1 flux more than your creature cost you. So 2 more flux (if you use glub or soldier), then I have to have some way of killing the creature I just gave you, or else take damage from it. Anyone who says this card is OP has never used it.

On topic: Whisk Away says the card and flux goes back to the caster, and mind transplant does not change caster. So it does seem this is a bug, of wording if nothing else.
Author:  Themist [ Fri Jun 04, 2010 9:58 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Whisk Away
Now this is a wacky situation and unfortunately my comment is going to to be targeted at the high jacked post...lol.

When talking about Mind Transplant players talk about how they have to spend the extra 1 flux and have to cast a creature. But, what is failed to be noted is that its only two domain to cast. So if you steal/transplant my three domain Epic Vet your taking a huge flux and creature advantage.

17 flux for domain to cast...1 Dwarven Hall, 2 Mahals
06 flux for Vet
23 flux spent

13 flux for domain to cast....1 any basic building, 1 Faceless Lord
01 flux for crappy critter
07 flux for Transplant
21 flux spent

and you get Vet for 2 less flux...and don't tell me you dont save transplants for the big guns...lol. That flux advantage jumps from 2 to 6 if doesn't use cheap domain sources.
Author:  Zblader [ Sat Jun 05, 2010 1:59 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Whisk Away
Themist wrote:
Now this is a wacky situation and unfortunately my comment is going to to be targeted at the high jacked post...lol.

When talking about Mind Transplant players talk about how they have to spend the extra 1 flux and have to cast a creature. But, what is failed to be noted is that its only two domain to cast. So if you steal/transplant my three domain Epic Vet your taking a huge flux and creature advantage.

17 flux for domain to cast...1 Dwarven Hall, 2 Mahals
06 flux for Vet
23 flux spent

13 flux for domain to cast....1 any basic building, 1 Faceless Lord
01 flux for crappy critter
07 flux for Transplant
21 flux spent

and you get Vet for 2 less flux...and don't tell me you dont save transplants for the big guns...lol. That flux advantage jumps from 2 to 6 if doesn't use cheap domain sources.



Nice try, you hijacking hijacker of wacky wackiness. Regaredless, back to the problem: Is this a true bug, or just some miswording taht can be easily fixed? I find that Whisk Away should Whisk to a player based on it's controller, and Mind Transplant is a permanent creature swap, so it seems to be functioning the way it should.
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