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NP + Ix
http://thefarwilds.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=1935		 Page 1 of 3
Author:  jed [ Sat May 15, 2010 11:30 am ]
Post subject:  NP + Ix
There has been a lot of moaning about Nether Plasma plus Altar of Ix lately. Is this really OP'd?
Is it better than an ord stone? A gather spirits?
Author:  Atahualpa [ Sat May 15, 2010 11:56 am ]
Post subject:  Re: NP + Ix
Yes... ord stone gives only 1 flux per round, not to mention easier to destroy... gather spirits is a one shot deal. The reason Ix/NP is much more powerful is its re-usability and synergy with other DL cards who's powers are blown way out of proportion by the use of the combo. It gives flux, creates corpses, is infinitely reusable (Ix), it serves as an additional creature kill (with possession), it's extremely boring to wait on, I'm sure others will provide many more.
Author:  DarkJello [ Sat May 15, 2010 3:43 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: NP + Ix
All bow at the Altar of Ix:

This is the EXACT stated reason that UBER quit. He got so tired of facing DL after DL after DL, and thus having to wait for sacrifice after sacrifice after sacrifice...

Altar vs Stone:

Altar gives domain, is harder to kill, has more uses, and can often get you GOBS of flux RAPIDLY! No comparison here.

Altar vs Spirits:

First, many/most DL players run Altar AND Spirits. It is NOT one or the other, which compounds the problem. Spirits nets 3 flux and can be used to take away certain corpses. Altar has many more uses, and is often used over and over ad nauseum.

This is all self-evident to me.

Gamers of TFW, feel free to add any other tidbits I overlooked... I must depart hence, as wife wants a turn on the PC now. :cry:

LaterZ,

DarkJello 8-)
Author:  Altren [ Sat May 15, 2010 4:09 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: NP + Ix
The point that sacrificed plasma also laves corpses, so you can immediately use gather spirits or start feeding your Carrion Feeder.

Here are few possible ways that hopefully not too large.
1) Make NP dim to use ability. Makes combo not so reactive, but still useful. Full sacrifice goes 3 rounds instead of one.
2) Make plasma have no corpse. It doesn't stops combo itself, but makes Plasma much worse. If this looks too cardinal, then make original plasma have corpse, but not spawned.

Making Altar of Ix dim to use ability is too much.
Author:  Zblader [ Sat May 15, 2010 9:42 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: NP + Ix
After forum diving a bit, there have been some suggestions about taking damage when the ability is used.

I say remove Plasma's armor and force it to take damage when it has spawn or give it a lifespan. No corpses would also improve the situation. Or maybe even "You can only have 2 Nether Plasmas on the field and can only have 1 sac'd per turn."

And yes, jed, this is so bad, it's literally sacrificing the player base. I think it got Themist a few weeks ago.
Author:  DarkJello [ Sat May 15, 2010 10:18 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: NP + Ix
Altren:

More wisdom out of Mother Russia is always appreciated. :) And it is nice to hear another slightly above-average player agreeing with me. ;) Sending an eFive your direction this very second... :arrow:

Now begins the debate of how to properly balance Altar of Ix, and by extension DL. Requiring NP to dim before splitting is a good option as it slows down the flux whoring. Another option would limit Altar to 1 or 2 "sacrifices" per turn, but not require it to dim. Thus it could not be dimmed by opponent, and would be good to go the round it was cast. DL will still consistently jump ahead in flux when/if either of these options are embraced, but not so crazy silly as now. I am averse to going too crazy on their undead a$$e$ though, as the intent is to balance only.

Time to work in the yard peeps...

Ciao,

DarkJello AKA "the evil gardening gnome" :mrgreen:
Author:  Zblader [ Sat May 15, 2010 10:27 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: NP + Ix
DarkJello wrote:
Altren:

More wisdom out of Mother Russia is always appreciated. :) And it is nice to hear another slightly above-average player agreeing with me. ;) Sending an eFive your direction this very second... :arrow:

Now begins the debate of how to properly balance Altar of Ix, and by extension DL. Requiring NP to dim before splitting is a good option as it slows down the flux whoring. Another option would limit Altar to 1 or 2 "sacrifices" per turn, but not require it to dim. Thus it could not be dimmed by opponent, and would be good to go the round it was cast. DL will still consistently jump ahead in flux when/if either of these options are embraced, but not so crazy silly as now. I am averse to going too crazy on their undead a$$e$ though, as the intent is to balance only.

Time to work in the yard peeps...

Ciao,

DarkJello AKA "the evil gardening gnome" :mrgreen:


Lol, are you that gnome from them Travelocity commerials? *Intercepts the eFive and sends two of his own towards Smello and Alt*.

A few more ideas from this so labeled "Pen and Swordmaster":
1) Make Altar give back 1 flux only.
2) Weaken Both the Plasma and Ix and add some kind of similar version with different cads.
3) Add moar flux gaining cards for all domains but ELE and DL.
4) Introduce more Anti-Sacrifice/Anti-Spawn cards. I've put up a few in the Card Ideas forum.

or... we could force a player who uses Plasma's ability each time to stare at a ridiculous picture :D.
Author:  Huger [ Sun May 16, 2010 4:52 am ]
Post subject:  Re: NP + Ix
Ok, I'll throw in my two cents too. Ix + NP is totally OP and more importantly just not fun to play against. Clearly we all like to win, but at least for me a game can be very entertaining even if I lose. This is not usually the case against Ix and NP. I know I can't catch up in flux or domain and that every turn I will either have to pass about 10 times in a row or autopass and miss reacting to something important. The worst part to me is that this seems to be cutting down on creativity in decks. The recipe for success seems to be take DL and splash in another domain. It's true you can see other things in EC but they will be gone after the first round, because they lose to DL.

In regards to fixing this issue I don't understand why we can't make Ix dim on use. (and I actually would be happy to have someone explain why this wouldn't work) At least to me it seems like the issue is more about Ix than NP since there are other combos with stuff like Nightmares. In addition, if you compare Ix to other buildings that give domain it's already good. For 6 domain it is an accelerator and has a better ability than observatory. As a sylvan player i would be happy to have a building with one sight that gave domain for 6 flux even with no abilities.

In conclusion, please nerf this for the sake of the game.
Author:  DarkJello [ Sun May 16, 2010 5:50 am ]
Post subject:  Re: NP + Ix
It is my humble opinion that Huger is a genious! :!:

Also, I believe he is another representative of Mother Russia... but that is only a guess.

"Please nerf this" for the love of doGs!!!

DarkJello :twisted:
Author:  CaveTroll [ Sun May 16, 2010 11:54 am ]
Post subject:  Re: NP + Ix
OP? yes.

The problem compared with ord stone is its speed. Jumping to third domain in round three and still having more flux, creatures in play and cards on hand than the other player is not unheard of.

I have some DL decks without Ix that workes well. Its just that my DL decks with Ix is so much better, so I stoped playing them.
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