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 Post subject: Lysis Comment
 Post Posted: Mon Nov 10, 2008 7:25 pm 
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Joined: Tue Nov 04, 2008 12:05 am
Posts: 385
Location: South of Sanity
I definitely think it is overpowered. I'd suggest one of the following rather than "kill target dead"

  • Only works in area you control [as Attrition]
  • Must be used on a figure adjacent to one you control [as Arc Mage]
  • Only works on newly cast card [as Negate]
  • Returns target to hand instead of destroying [I forget the card, it's a Sylvan enchantment]

Any one of those would be nice, but I think that as it stands it is too powerful.


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 Post subject: Re: Lysis Comment
 Post Posted: Mon Nov 10, 2008 9:07 pm 
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Posts: 254
But then it is those cards. I like the fact that every domain has their own holy-crap-powerful-creature-coming response card, but they're still different enough. If it worked like negate, it better cost like negate.

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 Post subject: Re: Lysis Comment
 Post Posted: Tue Nov 11, 2008 1:59 am 
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Location: South of Sanity
I suppose. I haven't played Legion so I don't know what the cost is, but it seems god-awful powerful as it is. With a Mountainmen deck, if you don't have eyes on target when target "holy-crap-powerful-creature" is cast, you are stuck fighting it. With Lysis you can take your time and take out the target whenever you feel like it. It seems a bit unbalanced to me and extremely aggravating. I understand that others think that cards I like seem overpowering when you are on the other side of them too, so maybe it isn't as bad as I think, but I thought it was worth a comment at least.


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 Post subject: Re: Lysis Comment
 Post Posted: Tue Nov 11, 2008 2:40 am 
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Lysis is 2 domain 4 flux. Negate is 1 domain 1 flux. Tremendous discrepancy. Outrageously so.

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 Post subject: Re: Lysis Comment
 Post Posted: Tue Nov 11, 2008 7:29 am 
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Joined: Sat Nov 01, 2008 9:09 pm
Posts: 104
Ascent is 1 domain 2 flux. Returns creature to players hand.
Negate is 1 domain 2 flux. Removes ENTITY just played from game, but gives flux back to controller.
Lysis is 2 domain 4 flux. Straight up kills creature.


This is how I see these cards and their value:
Ascent is a two-sided card. It can be good and bad. Your creature just got hit for death damage? Ascent it back to your hand and play it later. Good for saving those tougher creatures, bad because you have to play it again (and they're not cheap). OR you see a baddy come after your stuff. You return it to your opponents hand only to see it again in a round or two. Good that it saved you this round, bad that you have to face it again. For the cost, I'd say Ascent is a good balanced card.

Negate is just like a counterspell, except this counterspell gives the flux back to you. While it can be very aggravating, at least you didn't just lose all that flux you spent. This card requires the summon to be in sight and cast immediately next turn. While those are limiting factors, I believe the cost is just too low for the ability. It should be at least two domain in my opinion (which isn't hard for Mountain).

Lysis is a straight up kill it card. Creature dies, makes a corpse. Now the corpse is something that can be benefited by the Dark Legion cards like Journeyman Necromancer, Death Mark, Carrion Feeder, and Gather Spirits (I'm sure there's more). I think the cost of the card is pretty comparable to some of the costs of these other cards. Sure it's always annoying to have your big cost creature just suddenly die, but hey they're the Dark Legion, they can do that.

Now limiting Lysis to your area (as Attrition) is something that would hurt the card, what if you have a Spaf's Greatbow firing down on you from afar? Well it's not in your area, sorry you just have to deal with it.
Limiting it to something adjacent... well just read above, but only even more limited.
Limiting it to something just cast? Then lower the cost of the card to a little more than Negate and see how you like it then, too, hmm?
Returning it to your hand is already a card.. it's called Ascent. Dark Legion would never give you the creature back though, that's just not their style. It has to die.


Hope this might help see a different view point. ;)

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 Post subject: Re: Lysis Comment
 Post Posted: Sun Nov 23, 2008 5:23 am 
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Joined: Fri Oct 31, 2008 4:21 pm
Posts: 265
Location: California
The other day I played in a match with grug where he had that bogus Elder Ent stomping around. I've played him when it was 71/8, this time it happened to be liek 18/8. Anyway lysis got into my hand and I introduced the two of them.

It was a joyous union and totally worthwhile. Sometimes you just need to kill something. Something that can kill almost anything with one hit. Like a giant stomping treeman with an attack rating of 72.


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 Post subject: Re: Lysis Comment
 Post Posted: Sun Nov 23, 2008 6:06 am 
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Joined: Wed Nov 19, 2008 7:19 pm
Posts: 75
Sorry for off-topic but... how this Elder Ent can have more than 6 ATK if his ability reads: "Attack is equal to number of forests contiguous to Elder Ent".

That is maximum of 6 forest squares surrounding him, isn't it? :shock:


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 Post subject: Re: Lysis Comment
 Post Posted: Sun Nov 23, 2008 10:20 am 
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Joined: Fri Oct 31, 2008 4:21 pm
Posts: 265
Location: California
BabyLeech wrote:
Sorry for off-topic but... how this Elder Ent can have more than 6 ATK if his ability reads: "Attack is equal to number of forests contiguous to Elder Ent".

That is maximum of 6 forest squares surrounding him, isn't it? :shock:


Contiguous.... forest next to a forest next to a forest next to a forest. It's not adjacent, it's contiguous.


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 Post subject: Re: Lysis Comment
 Post Posted: Sun Nov 23, 2008 12:22 pm 
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Joined: Wed Nov 19, 2008 7:19 pm
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I see. Tricky word for not natives :roll:


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 Post subject: Re: Lysis Comment
 Post Posted: Sun Nov 23, 2008 6:03 pm 
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Joined: Sat Nov 01, 2008 4:05 am
Posts: 137
Location: Cincinnati OH
No one likes getting lysis'ed (which should have a more fluent name) but it's a neccisary card some things you have to get around not thru. And for the cost i think it is fine, it cost more then most creatures, but truth is its probably the least broken of the snuff out effects, its not like teleport which is a kill card at much lower cost nor is it negate, which i would say is underpriced in its domain requirement. I think lysis and icy encasment are the most balanced of the threating creature answer cards.


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