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[ 10 posts ] |
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chiaone
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Post subject: Deck Tech 101 - Blessed Are teh Suck Posted: Sun Jan 18, 2009 3:49 pm |
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Joined: Sun Nov 02, 2008 11:55 am Posts: 19 Location: Crawfordville, FL
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Hello all. I was a very frequent player here for a few months, but due to a recent military activation, I'm not going to have the opportunity to play (outside of a rare game here and there, but certainly no tournaments or the Grand Clash) for the foreseeable future. That's a shame, because I've actually won a number of constructed tournaments, and I thought I had a pretty decent shot at being one of the 16 finalists for the Grand Clash. Anyway, I've never seen anyone else use a deck quite like the one I was running, so I think it will be kind of fun to tell everyone what I was using, how I tried to use it, and maybe get a dialog going about what I could have done better. By the way, this doesn't really do a good job of taking into account the last set of balancing changes -- I haven't had the opportunity to play-test this deck, but I saw that the Thistle Falcons lost a point of movement. So I got rid of the Falcons altogether... we'll go over that in a minute. Of course, the deck is built around a universal enchantment called "Blessed Are the Meek," an uncommon card. It makes it so any creature with attack greater than 2 cannot undim. Since it's an Enchant World, there are only two cards in the ENTIRE GAME that can currently really deal with it -- Disenchant and Negate (both Mountain Folk). Sure, there are other solutions out there. Bell of Dorn doesn't come into play very often. Erg Geyser isn't really worth game-planning around. Restore Nature's Balance is out there for Sylvan, but Sylvan relies on a lot of enchantments anyway, so you won't see it hit the table. Usually, if you can get BAtM on the table, it's going to stay. It's a fantastic card -- obviously, it singlehandedly negates most of your opponent's best creatures. Since you know that card's probably going to hit the table at some point, you can exhaust a lot of your resources early in the game. Sacrifice your creatures if you can take out theirs, because you'll have more weenies hitting the table later. You can burn through Entangles and Teleports early in the game because you won't need them as answers in the endgame phase. Plant a building in the hardest-to-reach corner of the map, because you'll be able to survive well into the midgame with just two domain. And don't panic about letting your opponent take a small flux advantage early -- they'll run out of creatures before you run out of answers. That said, here's the version I was playing with yesterday... Buildings3x Grove 3x Great Oak 2x Bamboo Watch Tower 2x Beacon of Celador For a long time, I was running Bronze Statues in here, but I think this deck works better with fewer three domain cards, and I found that I was doing well in endgame scenarios even when I didn't get a Statue out. I don't own any Ivory Spires, so I never had to debate their inclusion.Creatures3x Elven Scout 2x Goose Tamer 2x Tenderfoot Archer 3x The Coldstream Guard 3x Baron of Dellen 2x Trunk Hermit 2x Windreader Honestly, the exact mix of creatures you use probably won't make a huge difference one way or the other. I'm looking for high mobility, high vision, high range, and low domain/flux costs. And obviously you want cards with an attack less than 2. Until the last set of changes, running three Thistle Falcons was a no-brainer. I'm also probably crazy for not using Spaf's Greatbow, but I like Baron of Dellen better. Everything on my list is an Elf, and 8 of the creatures have a bit of range to begin with. With a Baron or two and a Beacon or two, you won't need a Greatbow. And with this many shooters, you don't need Aloft creatures. I'd like to drop one Baron and add one Volcanic Dragon, but I traded the only one I ever came across. Pity.Spells2x Morph 3x Teleport Morph is probably the second-best card in this deck, and the only reason I'm not running three is because they're damned hard to get ahold of. Teleport is the reason I started using Sylvan in the first place. When I first started playing TFW, any non-aquatic creature that ended its round in water died instantly. A Teleport was basically a cheaper Lysis for any dimmed creature. Well... it still works that way for any creature with 2 life or less, and it's also great for zipping your own creatures around the board to become threats.Enchantments3x Blessed Are the Meek 2x Charm 3x Entangle Charm *is* the best card in this deck, and if I were still playing, I'd definitely pay the ridiculous 250 gold (or whatever) to buy one off the market. Entangle is flawed -- it's useless against creatures with range, it's useless against an opponent who can Planar Rift/Teleport/Draknor's Chain his creature to a Desert or Ocean hex, and it can be negated by Silver Stagg or Arcane Adjustment or the like... now that I think about it, I should probably cut down to two of these.So there you have it. Ten buildings, seventeen creatures, five spells, eight enchantments. If you're flush with gold, I'd recommend filling the deck out with one each of Charm, Morph, Ivory Spire, and Volcanic Dragon (probably dropping an Entangle, an Elven Scout, a Baron of Dellen, and a Great Oak). You could also consider replacing another Elven Scout with a Windreader. Other cards that I've used in the deck in the past include the following: [*]Thistle Falcon. Some of you may still love it, even when it's down to three movement) [*]Ascent. I think this card is slightly overrated. It helps with pace, and it's fun to make your opponent waste an enchantment or spell, but the creature still goes back to their hand. You're not actually creating much card/flux advantage there. And it's a very inefficient option to save your own creature, since you'll still have to re-cast it. [*]Bear Strength. Certainly worthwhile, especially if you like to work at a faster pace than I do. [*]Bronze Statue. It's great for endgame scenarios, but a waste of a draw for your first fifteen rounds. [*]Arcane Adjustment. I really enjoy playing with this card, and it's a hard one for your opponent to game-plan around. One of the hardest cuts I had to make. [*]Naturescaping. It doesn't really fit into the deck, but it is (in my humble opinion) the most fun card to play against another opponent in all of Sylvandom. "Wow, it took your little dwarves four rounds to get through that forested swamp. It's a shame I'm going to turn this quarter of the map into an island, huh? Have fun backtracking." [*]Restore Nature's Balance. I used to keep one of these in the deck as an emergency measure, as there are a handful of Enchantment-related situations you can find yourself in (Claimed by Blood comes to mind, or a Planar Rift/Caravan of Dreams combo) that you have zero answer for. But the card wreaks so much havoc on your own deck that I can't justify keeping it around. [*]Bindweed Poultice. Basically, Morph is so good that it makes this card entirely unnecessary. [*]Pixie Queen. Too damned expensive. [*]Silver Stagg. Honestly? I should probably keep one in for the reasons listed for Restore Nature's Balance above. But I'm not very smart, and I end up putting the Stagg next to my own enchantments entirely too often.
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chiaone
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Post subject: Re: Deck Tech 101 - Blessed Are teh Suck Posted: Sun Jan 18, 2009 4:33 pm |
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Joined: Sun Nov 02, 2008 11:55 am Posts: 19 Location: Crawfordville, FL
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Oh, right, the matchups...
Blessed rules all over Mountain Folk. I was able to consistently beat players who are actually much, much better than I am (like ivandubina) just by getting the card on the board for a few rounds at a time.
It's also very, very strong against Elemental. Elemental is just entirely dependent upon creatures with high Attack.
You're pretty vulnerable against the mirror match. Obviously, your opponent will be playing a large number of low-cost, low-attack creatures, and they can overwhelm you early on. This deck is designed a little differently than an average Sylvan deck. You won't be able to win based on speed alone. You'll have to be more judicious with your use of Teleports and Entangles, and save them for bigger threats later in the game. The game gets particularly sticky if he/she starts playing Greenings. You can get into an odd situation where nobody's creatures undim.
The big ugly on the block for you is Dark Legion. They've got an assortment of creatures with two attack and good toughness, so they can keep exchanging with you even if you drop the Meek bomb. Drain Blood can absolutely devastate a weenie army. You have no good answer for Claimed by Blood. And Xosan plus any number of Haunts can be a bad time for you no matter what you have on the board. If anyone can tweak this deck to beat grug's, I'd love to hear how you did it...
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Sunyaku
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Post subject: Re: Deck Tech 101 - Blessed Are teh Suck Posted: Sun Jan 18, 2009 8:19 pm |
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Joined: Sat Nov 01, 2008 2:51 am Posts: 584 Location: Madison, WI
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Unless you got the additional morph/charm or some of the other cards you mentioned, I think I would take out two entangle and put in two ascent. Although you did say this deck was not meant to thrive on speed alone... but ascent is a staple in every fast sylvan deck.
Entangle is normally used to immobilize big nasty creatures, but you should already have that covered with Blessed Are the Meek.
Even in the early-mid game, I think of Ascent as a "you lose your flux for this round" card... essentially "you lose a turn". I've also had several endgame situations where Ascent was the ONLY way I could deal with a damned Yalrinian Fiend. I would have lost without it.
Be smart, stay sharp, return home safely.
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doiron
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Post subject: Re: Deck Tech 101 - Blessed Are teh Suck Posted: Sun Jan 18, 2009 9:15 pm |
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Joined: Sun Nov 02, 2008 10:04 pm Posts: 348
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sun speaks wise. never overlook ascent.
I haven't seen anyone playing a meek deck since you left, but my impression is that it's too easy for it to go horribly wrong. if you're playing someone and that meek doesn't draw or gets d/e'ed you're left with a lot of really crappy creatures that wither quickly.
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chiaone
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Post subject: Re: Deck Tech 101 - Blessed Are teh Suck Posted: Sun Jan 18, 2009 11:05 pm |
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Joined: Sun Nov 02, 2008 11:55 am Posts: 19 Location: Crawfordville, FL
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Yeah... the Y. Demon is one of a few creatures that can still beat you even with a Meek roadblock in the way. Volcanic Dragon is the really big bully on the block. Even if you deal deadly damage, he can just incinerate himself and rise again. Annoying jerk. You'd also be surprised at how tough the Dire Cave Cricket is to get off the board -- you literally don't have anything that will deal enough damage to kill him. Hope for Teleport. I guess the reason I never liked Ascent is because it just delays the inevitable. That creature's still going to hit the table one round later, and you're still not going to have a proper way to deal with it the next round -- at least Entangle is an *attempt* at an answer, however flawed. The question of what to do if you DON'T pull a Meek is something I should have addressed above. I think the appropriate phrase from my time as an M:tG player is to "scoop." Seriously, though, you might find yourself in a position where you have to stall for time. Protect your own base and try to establish a second building in the least-disputed corner of the map. Fight like hell to try to keep your opponent from capturing three flux wells (this is where sacrificing your creatures to kill theirs comes into play). Be willing to go down 8-0 or 10-0 in Glory on an unappealingly regular basis. And don't actually play the Meek until your opponent actually drops one of those high-attack creatures. Go ahead and let him waste the 4 or 5 flux. The other, more obvious caveat that I should have added at the beginning is that I'm not an elite player -- this is the deck of a guy with a 1500 ranking, not a 1700 ranking. I'm never going to beat (for example) Tryste with this deck on a consistent basis. But it does give me a puncher's chance once in awhile. In any case, if Altren or grug or Tryste or Sunyaku or Doiron (etc.) were thinking about posting some of the decks that they've used, this is a good way to get the ball rollin', right?
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Tryste
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Post subject: Re: Deck Tech 101 - Blessed Are teh Suck Posted: Sun Jan 18, 2009 11:36 pm |
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Joined: Sat Nov 01, 2008 7:14 am Posts: 89 Location: Victoria, BC
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The Sylvan deck I've used to win a lot of GC's and the qualifier is as follows:
2 Alearwyn Barques 3 Ascent 3 Bamboo Watch Towers 3 Baron of Dellens 3 Beacon of Celador 3 Bindweed Poultice 3 Elven Scout 3 Entangle 3 Great Oak 3 Grove 3 Sapling 3 Teleport 3 Tenderfoot Archer 3 The Coldstream Guard 3 Thistle Falcon 3 Treeherd 3 Valedune Arborist 1 Trunk Hermit (because I only have one, easily omitted though)
3 Basic Bases 36 Common 10 Uncommon 1 Rare
Most games are decided in the first 5-10 rounds. That is where you set up the initial flux/board advantage that should propel you to glory. Sylvan have no mana gaining abilities so you have to keep it cheap. None of your guys pack a punch but they have sight, mobility and the advantage of numbers. Also, you can play 37 of the 50 cards here with one domain or less. Less two and three domain cards weighing your draws down.
The downside to weenie decks naturally is anything with armor is a deal breaker and you lose in terms of card advantage. You'll be putting two or three cards on the table to counter his one 2/4 creature so you have to be careful not to get into a battle of attrition because you'll lose.
The counters to this deck? Tons, any kind of AE (Drain Blood, Volcano, Flash Powder) is trouble. A good MF deck with their flux/domain advantage that can toss out their top cards in the first few rounds will beat this most of the time. I would probably have included one or two Meeks but I don't own any so... This deck will not win every match, but it wins for me more often than not. I'm sure better decks could be made with all the rares out there but I don't have them so this is it.
And as far as Ascent goes, I use it one of two ways. Either to create a flux advantage or to disable at an opportune time. Mostly, I'll use it for the flux advantage. He drops a 5 flux creature? Gone. Or if you have a few creatures parked near his base and he has a bigger creature wandering around somewhere. Send it back to his hand. He can play it and get mobbed or watch his base get raped a pinprick at a time.
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chiaone
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Post subject: Re: Deck Tech 101 - Blessed Are teh Suck Posted: Mon Jan 19, 2009 12:30 pm |
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Joined: Sun Nov 02, 2008 11:55 am Posts: 19 Location: Crawfordville, FL
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Wow. I think this pretty conclusively proves my theory that elite players can win consistently with an all-commons deck.
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doiron
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Post subject: Re: Deck Tech 101 - Blessed Are teh Suck Posted: Mon Jan 19, 2009 4:05 pm |
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Joined: Sun Nov 02, 2008 10:04 pm Posts: 348
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only if you play sylvan. not possible with the other races, they just don't have the same powerful cardbase to pull from
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ivandubina
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Post subject: Re: Deck Tech 101 - Blessed Are teh Suck Posted: Mon Jan 19, 2009 4:54 pm |
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Joined: Fri Nov 21, 2008 10:05 am Posts: 55 Location: Ukraine
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In fact, it's possible to cobble pretty decent deck only from MF commons too. Nothing too flashy, just bit stronger than default decks. But you can buy entire deck for less than 100 gold , which is great virtue by himself. Maybe this is wrong place to discuss such things, though
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Tryste
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Post subject: Re: Deck Tech 101 - Blessed Are teh Suck Posted: Tue Jan 20, 2009 12:07 am |
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Joined: Sat Nov 01, 2008 7:14 am Posts: 89 Location: Victoria, BC
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It's possible to do good common/uncommon decks with the other domains. The main thing they lack is speed and sight and an abundance of very cheap creatures. All the other domains have an easier time getting to two and three domain though. Sylvan has no means of defraying cost or getting domain built quickly (spare me the treetop dominion speech, useless).
MF have Ord Stone and Throne, Death has Altar, Broker, gather spirits, 6 cost domain building and Elemental primarily have the Mahal. Since the flux cost for many of the more powerful creatures is often as low as four and getting the higher domain is cheaper their ability to throw heavy stuff onto the table earlier is much higher. MF is probably the best example.
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