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 Post subject: Curse of the Bell Witch
 Post Posted: Wed Jun 16, 2010 4:42 am 
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Joined: Fri Nov 13, 2009 8:26 am
Posts: 139
I made a fun deck that plays curse on tangler. the deck lost its first test against Illithid, but I think the concept has promise. however, there is some question whether this is the correct behavior of curse -- see log (snipped and edited for typos) below. apologies to noob_mexican, Monyx, and Illithid if I am misrepresenting anything they said.

queeshai Cast Curse of the Bell Witch on: Tangler.
[Illithid] nice
[queeshai] heh
[queeshai] not sure if it'll be considered abuse
...
[queeshai] makes curse much better though
[Monyx] what's abuse?
[queeshai] curse on tangler
[Monyx] oh ok
[Illithid] he just created an insta-cast expansion with 3 attack and 8 health
...
[noob_mexican] that's a bug btw queeshai
[noob_mexican] just so you know
[queeshai] why do you know that? I didn't see it on forum ...
[noob_mexican] being able to cast curse on tangler, that is
[noob_mexican] jed told me a while back
[queeshai] ...
[queeshai] but didn't fix it?
[noob_mexican] and it strangely never worked for me when i tried it
[noob_mexican] might be because uraxor told him about another bug with uncontrolled creatures
[noob_mexican] so he "fixed" that and jacked up other stuff..
[noob_mexican] how long have you been playing that combo?
[queeshai] this is the first time in ec, otherwise I've had the deck for a few months to refine it.
[queeshai] but I first played it two+ months ago
[noob_mexican] and you've cast bell witch on tangler?
[queeshai] and it has worked since then
[queeshai] yup
[noob_mexican] weird...
[noob_mexican] i guess uraxor lied to me lol
[noob_mexican] or maybe jed just never got around to changing it
...
[noob_mexican] well maybe its not a bug
[noob_mexican] ill tell jed about it, and another question i have concerning a combo with uncontrolled
[queeshai] ... I'll post this conversation and jed/altren can comment as they like.
...
[noob_mexican] okay but disclaimer: i may be mistaken in jed telling me this, was a long time ago im not sure
[noob_mexican] mightve just been uraxor
[Monyx] it technically doesnt seem like a bug
[Monyx] just a good combo
[noob_mexican] well uraxor told me that jed said that it was op, so decided to make the game not consider uncontrolled as enemies


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 Post subject: Re: Curse of the Bell Witch
 Post Posted: Wed Jun 16, 2010 4:53 am 
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Joined: Mon Mar 29, 2010 2:37 am
Posts: 359
There are lots of issues with uncontrolled cards. I had asked jed to define "enemy" before (this thread) but nobody responded to the question.

I'm assuming nobody knows the actual answer.

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 Post subject: Re: Curse of the Bell Witch
 Post Posted: Wed Jun 16, 2010 5:59 am 
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Joined: Fri Nov 13, 2009 8:26 am
Posts: 139
oops, I had read that post before. I am pretty sure I created the tangler/curse witch deck before seeing it (i.e., months ago, not three weeks ago); but, if not, apologies (and thanks!) for lifting your idea, Zurken.


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 Post subject: Re: Curse of the Bell Witch
 Post Posted: Wed Jun 16, 2010 7:15 am 
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Joined: Fri Mar 27, 2009 8:01 pm
Posts: 526
Yea, Curse Tangler deck was out months ago and as far as I remember we discussed it with jed and came to conclusion the behaviour isn't correct and should be fixed (Uncontrolled creatures aren't enemies. Give me that and I'm gonna rock with Vow of Peace and Heat Wave =P) - and it even was, I dunno how come it's working now again ..


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 Post subject: Re: Curse of the Bell Witch
 Post Posted: Wed Jun 16, 2010 11:32 am 
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Joined: Tue Jan 08, 2008 2:07 am
Posts: 1045
wait this was fixed. Curse on tangler gives you control again?


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 Post subject: Re: Curse of the Bell Witch
 Post Posted: Thu Jun 17, 2010 1:39 pm 
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Ok fixed. Uncontrolled cards are not considered enemies.


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 Post subject: Re: Curse of the Bell Witch
 Post Posted: Thu Jun 17, 2010 6:13 pm 
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Posts: 139
jed wrote:
Ok fixed. Uncontrolled cards are not considered enemies.


I can still cast curse on tangler.

also, according to the logic of uncontrolled != enemy, we (should) have the following:

1) arc mage cannot use ability on uncontrolled figures (e.g., mantcore or freehold)
2) uncontrolled creatures (e.g., tangler) are not affected by attrition
3) mindherd hex control is not interrupted by uncontrolled creatures (e.g., tangler)
4) saboteur does not work on freehold
5) uncontrolled creatures (e.g., veldan unicorn) cannot be charmed
6) lower plane abberation is not healed when uncontrolled creatures enter play (e.g., bounty hunter)
7) iron porcupine does not do bonus damage to uncontrolled creatures (e.g., mastodon)
8) uncontrolled figures (e.g., tangler or bounty hunter) do not undim naga sentinel
9) uncontrolled figures (e.g., manticore, freehold) do not stop that hive from controlling hexes
10) direwood and peasant army do not spawn creatures when unaligned creatures enter
11) cannot cast double agent on unaligned creature

items 1-7 seem wrong to me. items 10-11 seem correct to me. items 8-9, as with curse, I am not sure about.


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 Post subject: Re: Curse of the Bell Witch
 Post Posted: Thu Jun 17, 2010 7:04 pm 
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wasn't patched until just now.

yeah all those things should be true now


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 Post subject: Re: Curse of the Bell Witch
 Post Posted: Thu Jun 17, 2010 7:17 pm 
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Joined: Fri Mar 27, 2009 8:01 pm
Posts: 526
jed wrote:
all those things should be true now


And so the New Bug Hunt has began...

good work, jed!


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 Post subject: Re: Curse of the Bell Witch
 Post Posted: Fri Jun 18, 2010 2:06 am 
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Joined: Tue Jul 28, 2009 1:47 am
Posts: 150
I think a distinction should be made between "enemy" (which does not include the uncontrolled) and "non-friendly" (which does, because only your own units are friendly).

The distinction is already made with respect to normal attacks: it's possible to attack uncontrolled creatures even though they are not enemies. In other words, it's not "you can only attack enemies", but rather "you can't attack friendlies".

Some of the cases queeshai lists (1,2,4,5,7, maybe 3) should probably refer to non-friendly creatures, rather than enemy creature.

Actually, with some (Charm, maybe Arc-Mage and Saboteur) there's no reason to prohibit them from just affecting any creature/building (including friendlies).


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