A creature of mine was entangled. My opponent moved my buoyancy from one of my creatures to the entangled. It did not regain it's speed back, nor did it after the turn roll. Does this also mean that ranged attacks cannot hit buoyancy'd creatures? The same principle would seem to apply.

no bug. entangle only says you can't cast it on an aloft creature, doesn't say anything about it being aloft after casting.

My point is that it is a ridiculous distinction to make. I thought the point of having all the cards and abilities was so that we could counter them in a test of wits. This is a loophole. It just doesn't make any logical sense. What if i've got a buoyant creature, and a silver stagg walks up, if my opponent then casts entangle me and walks away with the stagg am i grounded again? all i'm suggesting is that lifting off from the ground, at any time, should negate any ground-based penalties.

by this reasoning, i also believe that aloft creatures should be subject to non-aloft enchants, spells, or abilities while landed.

actually, I'd argue it makes perfect logical sense. a creature becomes entangled, i.e. vines are holding them down. it doesn't matter if that creature later becomes aloft, they're still tied down.

I do appreciate the point about being able to counter things, but in this case it's already in place and not a bug

I agree Akk, I find the entangle mechanic generally frustrating. See my complaining at: viewtopic.php?f=4&t=426

I highly doubt that any change could ever possibly be enacted now. But I would love to see entangle removed if the enchanted creature no longer fits the requirements.

_________________
-Minds

I think a more interesting fix would be, as stated earlier, changing the aloft mechanic completely, so that aloft creatures landing for an attack lose their aloft status until they lift-off at the beginning of the turn. this creates some interesting wrinkles in aloft strategy, such as entangling dangerous flyers when landed, or through card play lift-off an entangled creature, even keeping the entangle enchant if the creature lands again. Whereas right now they can be a total game breaker if you don't have the right answer in your hand at the moment. it also has the added benefit of making other cards more valuable as counters, which i can only see as a good thing.

i recently read an interesting article from valve about balancing tf2, the point being, if you lose to a factor out of your control you tend not to learn from the loss and disengage from the game. right now there are a lot of factors already out of control, like starting position, terrain, and the cards dealt every turn. right now aloft is a one sided mechanic, with all benefit and no downside.

I can understand not wanting to change a lot of cards or mechanics now that the game is officially out of beta, (some of us have seen a TON of changes) but the more i think on it the more i see this as a detriment to the game. new cards cannot fix all ills, and if the game has to evolve a little as the metagame changes i'd like to think the developers would be open to that change.

it's a lot of ground i just covered, and probably not in the right place to get noticed, but that's been my experience.

I agree with aloft being to powerful and that figures should be considered "grounded" after they attack. I also have made the case that you should be able to attack aquatics if you're next to them, but now we're getting wish-listy.

Entangle removes the creatures speed. Aloft just makes it able to fly, but since the creature has no speed it is not able to move anywhere.
I don't understand the confusion on this matter, as the words on the cards describing it makes it perfectly clear. This is the only way it can work according to the text on the card.
Playing buyancy on an entangled creature or in some other way (temple of zorn...) giving an entangled creature aloft does not change the fact that the creature is still held down by vines, and thus unable to move.



Creatures with aloft already 'lose' aloft when they attack a land figure. It can't be hit by spells, enchantments or other effects that can't affect aloft creatures but they can be attacked by land creatures. I disagree with your proposal to 'lift off' an entangled creature. This is because of what I described in the start. (Aloft doesn't remove entangle or return speed to the creature, it just gives it a pair of wings.)

~Wombat in combat killing evil dwarves (Wicked)~

It sounds to me as if you're trying to make a literal argument and a figurative argument at the same time. Essentially you're saying that because a ground unit is literally entangled in vines that it cannot or should not be able to lift-off. however we know this to be false, the unit can be lifted, just doesn't get any movement back. you can lift a creature off even when entangled. Secondly, you suggest that because an aloft creature lands it is figuratively landed, even if the card retains the aloft trait.

These two arguments don't make sense together because they are inconsistent. Aloft literally means "in the air," so when a creature lands for an attack it is literally no longer aloft, therefore the mechanic should change. As for Entangle, if you're entangled, and liftoff, i see no problem imagining ripping those vines right out of the ground, only to find that when i land again they grip the ground.

I think the thing most frustrating about this is that the mechanic just doesn't make sense logically, which hurts the gameplay. This is what leads to a situation where someone thinks they have a counter when it turns out not to work. This isn't about any one card or color, it's about the mechanics of the game being as smooth and intuitive as possible. The more specific knowledge required to play this game the less people will be interested in playing it. For example the word Adjecent in this game referring to a cell and all those around it, as opposed to the english definition of the word. I can't tell you how many people have come yelling in the lobby because the cards say one thing, but seem to behave another way.

The problem is since the game takes place on a map it is less abstract so people have more expectations for what things should do. So it seems like an entangled thing that flies shouldn't be entangled anymore. But if you just rely on the card text I think it is clear.

I just went through and changed all the wording so adjacent now means what it means in english.