Howdy:

I have 3 wins and 3 losses on the ladder this week. Current score = 242. I have yet to receive a single point on the ladder after a win. Does "anyone" work differently? I beat a player with 200+ higher rating than myself, and still received nothing for my EXTREME fortune. This happened to me a few months back as well. I don't win very often, so I like to get the points when I do.

Humbly,

DarkJello

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Not really a bug.If you beat a player in "Anyone" and they are not "Similar" to you, you get nothing and they lose nothing. Even if they have 1000 higher rating, if they aren't sim, you get no reward.

Just their ranking drops rapidly and yours grows even quicker.. so you might soon find yourself 'similar' to them, if you'll cary on humiliating them

Ok:

But that does not explain my 2 victories in "similar"... How can someone be "similar" and I receive nothing for beating them, but they get points for beating me? Meanwhile I have 242 points and the other dude has like 2K. (In the ladder). This has happened to me a number of times, and it is kinda frustrating.

Here is my real question:

How in the batshiz, crazy universe do people score 3K+ points on the ladder battling "similar" opponents? Is it as simple as an elite using an alt account, throwing games to lower their rating, then kicking everyone's arses in the next 20 matches? If you are truly competing against those with similar skill, it is nigh impossible to win time after time after time after...

DarkJello

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DJ,
I won't speak to the likelyhood of anyone cheating the ladder anymore. I know it happens; I just don't think it is as prevelant as many people do. My views on that have, if anything, been over-expressed elsewhere.
I can, hopefully, enlighten you about ladder math somewhat. First, noob and zurken are right about sim matches. You only get ladder points for beating a "similar" opponent.
Regarding the ladder points, the formula rewards you for beating opponents with low uncertainty, beating opponents with high ranking (relative to you), and having low uncertainty yourself.
Examples:
Case 1
Player A is 1200, 50. Player B is 1300, 50. Player A wins. Winner gets 375 ladder points. Loser loses 350 ladder points.
Case 2
Player A is 1200, 50. Player B is 1300, 50. Player B wins. Winner gets 170 ladder points. Loser loses 150 ladder points.
Case 3
Player A is 1200, 200. Player B is 1300, 200. Player A wins. Winner gets 23 ladder points. Loser loses 22 ladder points.
Case 4
Player A is 1200, 200. Player B is 1300, 200. Player B wins. Winner gets 11 ladder points. Loser loses 9 ladder points.
Case 5
Player A is 1200, 50. Player B is 1300, 300. Player A wins. Winner gets 31 ladder points. Loser loses 29 ladder points.
Case 6
Player A is 1200, 50. Player B is 1300, 300. Player B wins. Winner gets 14 ladder points. Loser loses 12 ladder points.
Case 7
Player A is 1000, 50. Player B is 900, 50. Player A wins. Winner gets 155 ladder points. Loser loses 150 ladder points.
Case 8
Player A is 1000, 50. Player B is 900, 50. Player B wins. Winner gets 360 ladder points. Loser loses 350 ladder points.

All the number assume it is the 1st game between the two players.

If the two guys you beat were noobs, then you would not have got many ladder points. Easy answer is don't play sim games against noobs. It isn't worth your time. Of course, you can't exactly pick your sim opponents so the advice isn't very good.
As far as scoring 3000+ points, if you beat the right opponents you can get 3000+ ladder points in as few as 6 games. Also, the system rewards people for playing (and winning) more games. It makes sense to me that the more traffic on the game, the more sim games which happen and the higher the winning ladder scores will be.
That said, recently, my best week I got over 2800 ladder points (honestly of course) and still finished 3rd. I was leading the ladder with less than a 1/2 day to go in the week. I was pretty surprised the next day to find out I hadn't won the ladder that week.

EDIT: Realized I mis-read how loser points are "awarded". Corrected that.

Ugly_Pug:

First, the force is strong with you!

I have won several more ladder matches, and actually received points. The squeaky wheel gets grease first. Muchas thanks for all the math examples. My question is this: Can a "similar" match result in 0 points for a player? If so, that kinda bites a bit.

Thanx sir,

DarkJello

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Yeah, it is mathematically possible for the winner of a similar game to get 0 or even negative points. For this to happen, Rw >= 228 + Rl + (Rl/100)^1.5.
In English, this means the winner needs to have a rating at least 270 points higher than the loser in order to get 0 or negative ladder points. Happily for experienced players, the similar game matching formula won’t let similar games happen between such mismatched opponents if your uncertainty is under about 115. The exact cut-off values for this to happen depend on the players’ specific ratings, so take these numbers as approximate.
A few sad examples… (Player A wins in all of these)
Case 1: Player A is 1155, 130. Player B is 900, 50. Winner gets 0 ladder points. Loser GAINS 2 ladder points.
Case 2: Player A is 1260, 130. Player B is 1000, 50. Winner gets 0 ladder points. Loser GAINS 3 ladder points.
Case 3: Player A is 1175, 130. Player B is 900, 50. Winner LOSES 6 ladder points. Loser GAINS 8 ladder points.
Case 4: Player A is 1280, 130. Player B is 1000, 50. Winner LOSES 6 ladder points. Loser GAINS 9 ladder points.

Because your uncertainty must be pretty high to allow a sim game match to happen between such mis-matched opponents, it is impossible lose (or gain) more than 8 or 10 ladder points while winning (or losing) the game. So if it happens, it won’t be a big blow to your ladder ranking. Of course, it doesn’t seem fair, but the chance of it happening is pretty remote.
The lesson here is don’t beat up opponents far less capable than you. Of course, this advice isn’t very good for the same reason as my last bit of advice. If you are unfortunate enough to get a sim match where this can happen it is far better to win than lose. I guess a better bit of advice is to play enough to keep your uncertainty low if you are serious about the ladder.

Arrgghh… can’t resist….

This is why I think cheating the ladder is less of a problem than many other people do. Not only do you have to maintain at least 6 or 7 alt accounts (12 or 13 would be better), but you have to play all of them enough to keep ALL alt account uncertainties low.
I know it happens, but I bet there are only 2-3 people doing it right. Of course, that is all it would take to ruin it for the rest of us. I guess I just can’t remember a time when I had enough spare time for something like that. I think it would take all the fun out of the game for me, too.

Ugly_Pug:

Again, muchas thanks!



Apparently you are a pirate/jedi that can't resist... galactic senators? Is your real name Anakin de los Skywalkers by chance? If so, I have some super important spoiler info that will literally save your soul!

Cordially,

DarkJello

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