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 Post subject: Are you guys going to fix this mess?
 Post Posted: Thu Sep 02, 2010 4:50 pm 
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Ok, I think from what I've seen is that the Kingdom/Acorns system was a failiure. I'm not going to launch into any major rant here or anything similar, but Acorns are nearly worthless, have made the EC less popular, and have made many an expert unhappy. This negative effect seems to have spread to the leagues and anyone games as well (honestly, people are literally camping in sealed.)

The question is, what are you guys doing about it? TFW isn't a total failiure at the moment, it had simply lacked players and your attempted solution (kingdoms and acorns) was mostly a failiure. It just... couldn't work, alongside the other bad ideas like making more EC's and replacing the reward of power with acorns.

So, what has been done? Will we see more of Kingdoms and Acorns, or do you plan to do something different like giving Power a purpose?


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 Post subject: Re: Are you guys going to fix this mess?
 Post Posted: Thu Sep 02, 2010 6:32 pm 
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The Dark Platypus
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Convo I had with Ugly P:

Quote:
Keyser: dang. did you see zblades post

Ugly_Pug: yah... he is not usually so direct and harsh

Keyser: I pm'd Jed asking him to check out this post. He needs to see it and let the public know TFW is working on it. Players are getting extremely frustrated.

Ugly_Pug: yep... game environment kinda sucks right now

Ugly_Pug: I still don't understand why the failure of acorns means that constructed is dead

Keyser: well think about it.. is it harder or easier to get an anyone game now?

Ugly_Pug: next to impossible

Keyser: then constructed is dead

Ugly_Pug: I understand that, but why did acorns cause it?

Keyser: people wnated to build good constructed decks to win ECs, because the prize for ECs was, for all intents and purposes, money...who cares if it was only 80 cents for the winner?

Ugly_Pug: lol

Keyser: if ppl can play a game in a way that requires an initial investment but promises (even though it's unlikely) to be a self perpetuating, no more money required game... then that's the incentive to get cards and build good decks, to play sim matches to test those decks, and win with them in the ec

Ugly_Pug: I accept your analysis... but TFW isn't gambling, and even if it was.... Vegas doesn't make money because most gamblers win.The game is fun, play because you enjoy it not because you might win a few cents here and there

Keyser: Agreed. But the fact remains that the possibility of winning prizes that are valuable (current perception is that acorns are not valuable) or exclusive (unlike acorns which can be obtained by simply being online and doing nothing) is incentive for people to spend money. People spend money to acquire that which is valuable to them, in terms of monetary value -or- in terms of scarcity. My recent ebay purchases prove the latter. I spent 10 bucks on a comic just because it was out of print and a first edition that I think will go up in the next couple years. People spent twice as much on Starcraft II collectors edition as the non collectors just for the ability to have a little exclusive unit follow them around in the game...

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Altren wrote:
I agree with Keyser, and that's what I'm planning to implement actually.

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 Post subject: Re: Are you guys going to fix this mess?
 Post Posted: Thu Sep 02, 2010 6:39 pm 
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The Dark Platypus
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To keep all of this in one consolidated place:
Atahualpa wrote:
A week after kindoms came out, TFW is worse off than I've ever seen it. Still next to impossible to find "anyone" games. Not many people, outside of those that just discovered them care about acorns and kingdoms.

The EC's? They used to be the peak of activity, now, I know of at least 5 EC's that died down because nobody bothered to enter them or only a single player did. You'd think that more EC's = more players online every five hours... but... nah.

There's also a lot more chatter in the lobby, which would be a good thing if this was designed to be the next great AOL chatroom... but people just chat cause they don't play or don't want to play...

Domain League is progressing slower than I've ever seen it. I guess nobody wants to win the gold anymore since there's no point in making constructed decks. Gold's value has decreased as well...

Noob's left or is leaving. Several formerly active players are conspicuously missing...

Chester's back... that can only contribute to the decline...

The last Brass League was pathetic...

One good thing came out of kingdoms/acorns, though. I've seen a couple of players (myself incuded) experiment with different decks... At least on those rare occasions when they even play... However, in my case, at least... this will only last until my current supply of gold/cards can keep up. There's no incentive to expand my collection more aggressively.

There's a few new players (that came due to normal channels and not because "OMFG! This game has kingdoms and acorns!!!). They've bought some gold... now, will they see it as a worthwhile investment or will they, too, become as frustrated as some of the older players have become?

All in all... things look bleak.

<this except from this thread>

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Altren wrote:
I agree with Keyser, and that's what I'm planning to implement actually.

|| The Rise of the DCC | Plasmatium Netherious | Tastes Like Chicken | The Astridian Conspiracy ||

Guild -> | Platypus Rising|


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 Post subject: Re: Are you guys going to fix this mess?
 Post Posted: Thu Sep 02, 2010 10:05 pm 
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Joined: Thu Nov 26, 2009 4:10 am
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I'm sorry if I offended you guys, life has been tough for me lately. Anyway, back to my main point.

Keyser wrote:
Keyser: Agreed. But the fact remains that the possibility of winning prizes that are valuable (current perception is that acorns are not valuable) or exclusive (unlike acorns which can be obtained by simply being online and doing nothing) is incentive for people to spend money. People spend money to acquire that which is valuable to them, in terms of monetary value -or- in terms of scarcity. My recent ebay purchases prove the latter. I spent 10 bucks on a comic just because it was out of print and a first edition that I think will go up in the next couple years. People spent twice as much on Starcraft II collectors edition as the non collectors just for the ability to have a little exclusive unit follow them around in the game...


Atahualpa wrote:
There's a few new players (that came due to normal channels and not because "OMFG! This game has kingdoms and acorns!!!). They've bought some gold... now, will they see it as a worthwhile investment or will they, too, become as frustrated as some of the older players have become?


Dublone1870 wrote:
I also agree that Power from EC did play an important roll that needs to be filled. It was motivating: something like the basic reason why you want to build strong decks.


Name in teal = see respective player's quote.

I think the general opinion is that TFW originally offered currency that allowed you to... well, do stuff. Kingdom/Acorns was a nice idea (to be honest, it was a little fun until I beat all of them), but it hasn't helped the player base (Atahualpa), is of little value to most players (Keyser), and really was only a shadow of how great Power was integrated into the game (Dublone1870).

jed wrote:
There will be less frequent tournaments for gold starting soon. So it will still be possible to work your way up for free.


I know this has been pointed out to me multiple times, but I haven't seen the creation of such a tournament, and I really think that it still doesn't have that same... efficiency as the EC giving out power.

Solution:

This situation reminds me of a seemingly unrelated topic: Sonic the Hedgehog.

Why? Because the additon of Kingdom/Acorns is actually pretty similar to what SEGA did in games like Sonic Unleashed: they tried to put a new spin(Kindgoms and Acorns/Werehog levels) on an old concept (Alternate Currency in TFW/Sonic's "Daytime" levels). It was cool, but it also took away from the game's concept.

Thus, the solution should also be the same: take a step backward and take a look at why it worked in the first place. I could explain why, but I think that is explained well enough in other player's posts.

Overall:
1) You could put Power back in the EC.
2) You could have the Ladder give back gold. (although that might be a reward saved for like, 1st-3rd place maybe).
3) You could try something new and put Power on the ladder.

Hope this helps.


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 Post subject: Re: Are you guys going to fix this mess?
 Post Posted: Fri Sep 03, 2010 1:13 am 
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In fairness, I beleive I know the exact direction Jed is going with Kingdoms and you guys will just have to trust me (and him) that it's a good thing and for the purpose I beleive it's for, as I've said somewhere before... Kingdoms are a brilliant idea.

That being said, I don't think they have a place in the current TFW mechanism, at least not as a replacement to what has already been established (Acorns vs Power). As an addition, though, (new, standalone feature) it would be awesome.

In short, Kingdoms = good; Acorns = ok; Acorns instead of Power = horrible.

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 Post subject: Re: Are you guys going to fix this mess?
 Post Posted: Fri Sep 03, 2010 1:55 am 
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Atahualpa wrote:
In fairness, I beleive I know the exact direction Jed is going with Kingdoms and you guys will just have to trust me (and him) that it's a good thing and for the purpose I beleive it's for, as I've said somewhere before... Kingdoms are a brilliant idea.

That being said, I don't think they have a place in the current TFW mechanism, at least not as a replacement to what has already been established (Acorns vs Power). As an addition, though, (new, standalone feature) it would be awesome.

In short, Kingdoms = good; Acorns = ok; Acorns instead of Power = horrible.


Yeah, I guess even the game designers need some slack, and Kingdoms is slightly better than The Wilds(less waiting because an ai's playing, but it's a pretty stupid ai on that note). But on the other side of the coin, this could have been a much better concept had jed planned ahead and had something ready as backup.

Overall, I could just say it this way: Power needs to be back. Period.


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