This is intended as constructive criticism. I am only going through the trouble because I really like this game. Sadly, I don't have solutions to all these problems, but the developers aren't aware that these are there, then they should be. This is intended to be a look at what I consider to be the biggest problems from a "fresh perspective"

5. Steep learning curve

This is not a problem for me so much, because I am, generally speaking, "good at games" and I catch on pretty quickly. Not as good as some, not great, even, but pretty good. However, this can turn a lot of people off, which contributes to the bigger problem of the low player base.

4. Horrible single player AI

This is really sort of a subset of 5, because this is one of the reasons why the learning curve is so steep. I have never, ever come even close to losing to the computer on the higher difficulty, yet I have never come close to winning against a human, except my latest game was slightly close. The AI just doesn't behave intelligently at all and is easily exploitable, and as a result does a very poor job of preparing new players for the game. The only way it succeeds is as a randow card draw generator, in case you made a new deck and you want to see a sample draw of what you're likely to get.

3. Bad ladder matching system

I've been having a lot of difficulty. Obviously, the best way to get gold from the ladder is to purposely throw all my games until Wednesday, then play normally and do my best to win. That way, I will be matched up against others with low ratings, and have a better chance of beating them when I play similiar matches. That would be the smart thing to do, but I haven't done it. I have tried to win every game I've played, and I've lost every one. The problem I'm having now, though, is that my rating is so low, that every time I try to find a "similiar opponent" match there is never anybody on who is low enough for me to be matched with. However I can't play an "anyone" match or a challenge match, because that actually hurts my ladder chances if I win, because then I'll be playing against a harder class of opponents, knowing what I know is smart from above.

Let me reiterate this because it is so hugely game breaking. The system not only encourages me to throw games to exploit the system, it discourages me from playing random fun games. Unless non similiar matches don't effect my player rating? But I would have no idea, because there is no documentation one way or the other...

2. Small player base

A lot of the previous problems lead into this one. I understand the game has been doing a lot to bring in new players, and the efforts are working. I have seen banner ads on other sites, and I know those are good sites for potential players. I really liked the boardgamegeek contest for bringing in new players. So this problem has two parts. 1.) The game can't stop with the current advertising efforts, it needs to continue with them, and 2.) MUCH more important, the game needs to find better ways to keep new players who have come here curious. Without knowing any of your fancy statistics I'm sure you keep, I can promise you that a lot of the new players don't stick around very long. The answer to this? I don't know, but with this list, at least I'm telling you why it's not working so much for me.

1. Games can take anywhere up to an hour or so

I've listed this #1 because this is literally the only thing keeping me from continuing to play (very much, anyway) despite everything else. I can play alteil (http://www.alteil.com) and know that I'll be done in half an hour or so, but games can vary wildly here. It makes me sad because if you're playing for an hour, that means it was a tense, close, hard fight. In other words, a good game. And I just don't have the time to play a random match most of the time when I know it can last an hour, especially thinking that I want it to last an hour if it's going to be a good game! Also, most games are forgone conclusions 15 minutes or so before they end. Which is fine for me so far since I think I'm fairly graceful about conceding when I know I've lost, but I can't blame someone for wanting to play it out if I was definitely in the winning position. So I know even if I get "good" at this game I will have a lot of games where I just won't be having fun for the last 15 minutes. My solution to this? The glory required to win is too high. Cut it down, maybe even in half. Or better yet, let players choose their glory goal when they start the game. Maybe it's not a great solution, but at least it's a simple one.

So there's my list. Someone will probably flame me, and tell me to go home, n00b for this, and when they do, everyone else please just ignore the trolls, because I just want the right people to have a chance at seeing one person's opinion of what is really a great and inspired game. The biggest factors, in a nutshell, are small player base, poor documentation, and game length. Good luck, and I wish this game success.

I'd like to make a comment to number 5...

What good CCgames have a small learning curve?

I don't find the curve that horrible. The tutorial, first time run through of the game with the pop up messages, and playing against the AI all help a lot (though I really HATE it when the tutorial mode comes back on even though I've played a ton of games .. why does this happen, Jed?).

Like any other CCG, the best way to get better is to find players that are willing to help you. Ask them to tell you when you make dumb mistakes and to help you become a better player. Many of the people here are awesome like that and will help out new players.

_________________

Altren wrote:

I agree with Keyser, and that's what I'm planning to implement actually.

|| The Rise of the DCC | Plasmatium Netherious | Tastes Like Chicken | The Astridian Conspiracy ||

Guild -> | Platypus Rising|

Saavedra: Thanks for taking the time to give feedback.
We know the small player base is a major problem. but it is a sort of a chicken and egg situation specially since we can't afford to advertise much more than we are currently. So if you actually like the game we encourage you to stick around since if everyone who liked the game but left since there weren't enough players was on there would be a ton of players.

You can change the glory goal if you make a custom game.

We are going to change it so when new people hit similar they will be paired with other new people rather than with normal ladder people. This way they will get a chance to learn the game before suffering beat downs by people who really want to win the game since they think it is a ladder game.

5. Not enough info to discuss with you properly; You list it, but say it isn't a problem with you. I haven't found anyone yet with a problem on how to play once going through the tutorial and pairing up with the AI a couple of times. Some of the advanced interactions (damage vs loss of health via water, etc) take a little time, but I think 'how to play' is very straightforward.

4. Yep, the AI is poor. It does serve the purpose of getting folks started. But that's going to make you quit?

3. Ladder matching - jed has acknowledged some changes in the works, so I'll leave this alone for the most part. But hugely game breaking? You'd seriously consider throwing games to exploit the ladder for what...about a dollar delta in prize payout (~50 gold)? Even the top prize is what, about $2.50? For a week's worth of work? I'd suggest playing sim for fun and anything you get is just 'fun money' and play leagues if you want to increase your prize take.

2. Not sure how you'll improve the small player base by quittng. Go recruit some friends!

1. I've never had a game go more than about 30 mins. In fact, I quit playing many other online CCG types and picked this one up because the games finished quicker here. I'd like to hear more specifics on your long games...is there some card combo in effect or a particular faction that is in common with those long ones?

In all, I agree with you...many problems will go away with an expanded player base. All we can do is give that time. The rest I don't see as something to quit over. By all means, if you aren't having fun, then you should move on...but this game is amazing in its ability for a very good time ON THE CHEAP. Don't like long games? set up a custom with different glory (personally, I don't think less than 20 glory is your solution...first time you set it to 10 and get a living monument dropped, you'll wish you had a few more turns to bust that up). Don't have the cards to compete at the top?...Play a sealed...its free to play one for fun, or join the brass league if you want to make gold with minimal investment. I think you have plenty of options to try before quitting, if you want.

Jed:

"We are going to change it so when new people hit similar they will be paired with other new people rather than with normal ladder people. This way they will get a chance to learn the game before suffering beat downs by people who really want to win the game since they think it is a ladder game."

All I have to say to the above is:::

Most Excellent!!

_________________

Altren wrote:

I agree with Keyser, and that's what I'm planning to implement actually.

|| The Rise of the DCC | Plasmatium Netherious | Tastes Like Chicken | The Astridian Conspiracy ||

Guild -> | Platypus Rising|

I played a game using a custom deck where I used undead and elves so I could stack my deck with lysis and entangle, so I ended up putting in slightly less good damage dealing than I would have, otherwise. I played a game against someone else with a very similiar deck, except he only used undead. It was a close back-and-forth game, and it took about an hour.

#5 was just something I was guessing is one of the reasons why the playerbase is so small. The learning curve is steep because of the level of strategy in the game. I'm pretty experienced at playing games and I initially felt overwhelmed at the strategic options. This can be helped a whole lot with a very good strategy article that is easily accessible. I don't know enough about strategy to write it, obviously, but for example, new players need to be told that while you're still getting used to the game, building a chain of buildings toward another well is much better than placing a distant building near the well and defending it for 3 turns. It seems to me this is best unless you have the right deck and the right draw. New players also need to be encouraged very strongly to build their own decks after playing a couple games. The autodraw system needs to be emphasized even more strongly (and I realize it's already emphasized) than it is now, and it should be pointed out how easy it is to make a multi - faction deck. Because let's face it, when your card pool is low, a multi-faction deck has SO much more versatility. And the game is built to support them. Also you might want to mention that you can farm phantom cards by playing the tutorial over and over again (unless that's considered an exploit )

Anyway, I can (and do) overlook everything else, but I just know that I have so little time during the day any more, that the degree to which a game can vary in time (10 minutes to about 50-60 minutes) means I probably won't be hitting that similiar matches button very much. I didn't know that you could lower the glory goal in custom games, though, so maybe I'll see if some of my friends want to join and we can play once in a while with a lower glory goal or something.

I agree generally with froglegs, but i'll just add my 2c:

5. I found the learning curve to be quite smooth. Within a couple of weeks after starting to play my rating had recovered from its initial dip, and I was competing in the ladder. but i'll deal with the ladder when i get to it. my point is, yes, you do need to play quite a bit to get better, but don't you want a game that's at least a bit challenging?

4. the AI is as I see it only intended for "goldfishing" decks... i.e. to see approximately how often you can get a second flux well on turn 2 or 3 or reach the domain you want to reach by a certain turn. it's not intended to refine your play skill, though sometimes you can figure out unexpected interactions between some of your cards, which is helpful.

3. Ladder: the game developers acknowledge that they haven't figured out the best system to reward new players yet. They are working on trying to improve it and have been for months. the system that they tried when i first started was in most ways even worse for new players -- sealed leagues that gave out free cards as prizes but were more skill intensive for new players (they had to figure out how to evaluate a large number of cards relative to each other), and basically encouraged experienced players to start new accounts so that they could take up all the open spots in the league and win more cards.. so, yeah, this is a huge problem but they're working on it.

2. this is the most important point but also, yeah, doesn't really justify quitting. i was tempted to quit many times over the past few months, but actually the number of players online at any given time has nearly doubled recently, and if they keep pushing and get up to 100+ players online at a time i think that most of the above problems will be magically solved. especially if ladder games are fixed.

1. without knowing for sure, i suspect that this is a product of two players who aren't very experienced. when i play against someone of about the same skill level, the games rarely last longer than 20 minutes. last night, i ended up playing a 45 minute game in which both my opponent and i ran out of domain buildings, it was incredibly close the whole way, the match was affected by good topdecks and occasional play mistakes back and forth on both sides, probaby one of the most enjoyable games i have ever played (helps that i won).. granted, both my opponent and i are mediocre to good players, and both of us played reasonably fast -- after the game, my opponent said (and i believe him) that he was experiencing lag the entire time.. which probably would have cut about 15 minutes off the game. the more you play, the faster your games will be. i have finished multiple constructed games in the past where both players have run out of cards in their decks in less than 45 minutes... i have also won quite a number of games now where my opponents have reached 18 glory... so.. just play more.

About the time issue: I don't think it's possible to make a satisfyingly deep and complex strategy game that consists of separate matches that are over in 30 minutes at most. Having said that, most games are more or less decided in that time, and very few players insist on fighting a losing battle. So I see no trouble here, at least with ladder matches and other single matches.

The Minor Clashes are a different matter though... I'm never able to get any gold from ladder for some reason and the only free way for me to get gold is MC:s. Now these can easily take 3 hours, and sometimes I wonder whether 1-4 Power is worth sitting 3 hours glued to the computer. Maybe there could be a bit less MC:s, say only one in 10 hours or so, and some kind of a free "pro league" to give out the rest of the power as prizes?

I'm biased on the learning curve issue. The last CCG I played was Starchamber; a frequent complaint there was that people had a hard time beating the tutorial. Compared to that TFW is a breeze.

woots Starchamber. just need leto around here....