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 Post subject: Possible changes with release of borderlands
 Post Posted: Wed Oct 14, 2009 12:29 am 
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We are contemplating changing a few cards once we release Borderlands. Specifically:
* Hadarck's Throne: 4M
* Fissure: back to costing 4 glory (so you must have 4 glory before you can cast it)
* Caravan of Dreams: can't be the target of spells or abilities (thus making Caravan + Rift no longer work)
* Nether Plasma: only starts with tokens when you cast it from your hand.


What do you guys think?


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 Post subject: Re: Possible changes with release of borderlands
 Post Posted: Wed Oct 14, 2009 12:47 am 
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Location: Madison, WI
Hadracks: Good.
Fissure: OK.
Caravan: Fine.
Plasma: Excellent. This will end an era of abuse.


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 Post subject: Re: Possible changes with release of borderlands
 Post Posted: Wed Oct 14, 2009 1:48 am 
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Look good to me. If you change plasma, you should also drop the token language on Nightmares, since that has effects on other cards with tokens.


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 Post subject: Re: Possible changes with release of borderlands
 Post Posted: Wed Oct 14, 2009 2:18 am 
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Hadarck's Throne: I don't like this change. I really think that this card can be balanced by the printing of other cards. The only problem is that other such cards haven't been printed.

Examples of cards that could keep Hadarck's Throne in check:
-Make Zap deal 2 damage instead of 1. Probably add a flux to the cost. (If this doesn't happen it needs to only cost 1.)
-Bring Brimstone Powder down to 2 domain, maybe 4IX (yes, it would be worse than Volcano, but I think the double domain requirement in Volcano would justify this).
-Nature's Repulsion - Spell - 2S - "Deal 2 damage to target building. Draw a card." Sylvan could really use some help dealing with buildings anyways.
-Unholy Explosion - Spell - 2DX - "Sacrifice a creature. Every Figure within 2 takes 2 damage." Nothing original, but I think it could be a playable card.
-Etc., etc.

I think if there are even a couple of cards that can efficiently deal with Hadarck's Throne, then it would allow the drawback of Hadarck's Throne to be fully realized.

Fissure - I like this change. I don't have a whole lot to say about this one.

Caravan of Dreams - I don't like this change. If Caravan of Dreams can't be used with spells or abilities then it really loses all of its appeal. I would rather have it only give the controller 3 glory instead of 4, thus requiring 7 successful returns compared to 5. But I don't know if this is even necessary. I think this is also a card that can be balanced by releasing other cards. More enchantment hate (or making Disenchant unaligned) and cards that prevent/punish alternate ways to gain glory would make the power level of this decrease.

Nether Plasma - I'm not sure how I feel about this one yet. I guess I'd be okay with this change.

Are these all the cards that you are thinking about changing? No Training? No Negate? I'd be happy with a 1 flux increase on both of those.

Also, if you are willing to nerf cards from the seed set, are you willing to buff some also? 'Cause there's some real stinkers that would love to be changed.


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 Post subject: Re: Possible changes with release of borderlands
 Post Posted: Wed Oct 14, 2009 2:58 am 
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Yeah there are some cards I'm thinking of buffing also. Those seem less important to get into since that doesn't make people mad. but what ones are you thinking of?


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 Post subject: Re: Possible changes with release of borderlands
 Post Posted: Wed Oct 14, 2009 6:22 am 
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The Dark Platypus
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I don't like the plasma change... The plasma/rag combo is already destroyed by Overclock and by any deck that keeps it from getting to three domains...

I don't like the Throne change either. The 2 health makes it weak as it is.

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Altren wrote:
I agree with Keyser, and that's what I'm planning to implement actually.

|| The Rise of the DCC | Plasmatium Netherious | Tastes Like Chicken | The Astridian Conspiracy ||

Guild -> | Platypus Rising|


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 Post subject: Re: Possible changes with release of borderlands
 Post Posted: Wed Oct 14, 2009 11:00 am 
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Hadarck's Throne: EDIT: I will have to come back to this...

Fissure: Since I first saw it suggested by Uraxor, I wanted it to be changed so that it gives opponent Glory istead of detracting from your own. I suppose the suggested change is good though. After all, it is a bitch of card.

Caravan of Dream: I like the spirit of the change but maybe it should get some kind of boost as well. If not, it will probably never be played (which may or may not be a good thing...). How about giving it 1 extra movement?

Nether Plasma: Good change. Plasmas are already good not only as a source of flux with Altar of Ix, but also for Claimed with Blood and Nefarious Research. The Ragnarok combo is just over the top.

Again, nice to see that you ask for the opnions of the players jed.


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 Post subject: Re: Possible changes with release of borderlands
 Post Posted: Wed Oct 14, 2009 2:28 pm 
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* Fissure: I totally agree with the prospected change; I think fissure cost was "almost" balanced, just needed a minor nerfing and this is reasonable

* Caravan of Dreams: fine, but it's really going to take 90% of the interest out of the card. I second the suggestion of a concurrent +1 movement improvement (better than nothing, maybe with sparrow would be even useful...).

* Nether Plasma: good, it's the plasma as it's supposed to be

* Hadarck's Throne: this is controversial. On one side, it will slow down most of top-level decks, which sounds quite good to me. Getting to 3 domains at round 3 is a bit over the top. It may also limit the proliferance of MF decks, to a certain extent. On the other hand, the great advantage of using throne as domain accelerator would be left to pure MF only. Is this reasonable? I think so, I doubt we will suddenly get hundreds of pure MF decks around... but who knows?


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 Post subject: Re: Possible changes with release of borderlands
 Post Posted: Wed Oct 14, 2009 2:55 pm 
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Fissure: I think this modification is only addressing the most obvious symptom and not the cause of the problem and that the problem (domain denial decks) will only rear its head again in the future unless it's fixed.

I brought up the problem before here: viewtopic.php?f=4&t=551 but the consensus was that more domain buildings would help. Having seen the new set, I don't think it will. Generally, you only pack one or two domain building per domain because the others are sub-par and clog a deck, which leads to too few options to last against domain denial decks.

I think a reasonable solution is to have it so that your deck plays normally when you still have the necessary domain, but once you run out of domain cards it'll draw default buildings for the domain you need. It'd take a bit of punch out of the cards many people find frustrating and 'future-proof' the mechanic.

throne: I'm split, I agree with others that just adding cards that can hit things for 2 damage is a good solution. it already doesn't have salvage so if you can make it so that it only lasts a few turns on average, you've made it a whole lot less appealing. On the other hand, the change would eliminate the auto-include nature for non-MF centric decks, which I think is overdone and cramping deck building.

plasma: good change.

caravan: just the change as described will make it pretty useless, a bit of a speed buff would help a lot.


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 Post subject: Re: Possible changes with release of borderlands
 Post Posted: Wed Oct 14, 2009 3:16 pm 
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The Dark Platypus
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Also,
What was the change to Bear Strength?

_________________
Altren wrote:
I agree with Keyser, and that's what I'm planning to implement actually.

|| The Rise of the DCC | Plasmatium Netherious | Tastes Like Chicken | The Astridian Conspiracy ||

Guild -> | Platypus Rising|


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