I've been thinking about Throne..

IF you do make it M4, then you should up it's HP, otherwise the card is going to be useless to any but an MF deck. The fallout from this will be that most players will gravitate towards playing a mono MF deck, and Mf will continue to be the dominate choice.

I would rather see other domains get a cheap way to get to their second domain level, so that players can also consider making competitive decks in other domains.

It will also seriously devalue that card, just as the changes to Fissure will devalue that.



On the Nether Plasma: Why? The combo of NP/Rag only works when you draw the NP AND the Ragnarok, and that seems to happen less and less in games.... so much so that I've currently abandoned the deck to try out other possibilities. I don't fully grasp the reasoning behind destroying a combo that only works half the time and isn't a game breaking combo -> The Deck has NEVER beat TheFlashPoints building deck, and only rarely beats a well played MF or MF/ele deck.

_________________

Altren wrote:

I agree with Keyser, and that's what I'm planning to implement actually.

|| The Rise of the DCC | Plasmatium Netherious | Tastes Like Chicken | The Astridian Conspiracy ||

Guild -> | Platypus Rising|

Even if it got more HP, it would still be worse than a diplomat in non MF decks wouldn't it? I share the concern about mono MF becoming dominant though.

Unless I'm mistaken, the change to throne is to make MF splashing not so easy. It sure does succeed in this, as it won't be any cheaper than splashing sylvan (which is very expensive flux-wise). Then again, I think it would have been better to add more viable splashing options for other colors too than take the only cheap splashing card away. Here's an example:

Great Oak: from 7 to 6 flux
Weather Vane: from 5 to 4 flux
Bone Fortress: from 7 to 6 flux
Vapor Mahal: if all the above changes were made, mahal should probably go back to 4
..And keeping throne as it is

I think these changes would be easy to justify. For oak, sylvan is the only domain that doesn't have access to 2nd domain cheaper than for 7 flux, which is a huge amount to collect while getting 3 per turn and trying to get some creatures out too. Sylvan is extremely flux heavy as it is, except for the weenie creatures. For vane, if it was 4 flux, casting it would be roughly worth the risk of losing 2 domain giving entities with just one building being removed. Bone Fortress is so vulnerable that it should not be too good at 6 flux.

Or another way would have been to simply make throne 5 flux and a bit more durable, or have salvage.

I would imagine chaos will have a monopoly on splashing now with faceless lord and the newly improved vessel (should be actually good with weenies like thistle, arborist and sleet).

I think the other changes are quite good though, except caravan could use more speed. The important thing is it won't be playable by only staying in your own corner, i.e. turtling, anymore.

Wouldn't it make more sense to lower Oak to 5 instead of 6, seeing as it only has 4 hp?


Also... the proposed changes to Fissure and other cards will encourage and aid the building decks (TheFlashPoint's domination deck is a great example of one that will benefit largely from these changes as his main weakness is the destruction of the Pantheons).

_________________

Altren wrote:

I agree with Keyser, and that's what I'm planning to implement actually.

|| The Rise of the DCC | Plasmatium Netherious | Tastes Like Chicken | The Astridian Conspiracy ||

Guild -> | Platypus Rising|

No taxation without representation!

(sorry.. just got caught up in the spirit of things )

_________________

Altren wrote:

I agree with Keyser, and that's what I'm planning to implement actually.

|| The Rise of the DCC | Plasmatium Netherious | Tastes Like Chicken | The Astridian Conspiracy ||

Guild -> | Platypus Rising|

Nice discussion here, but before I'll add my comments on the cards I'll just ask for saving current prices on market, because if these cards are gonna be changed I definitely want to sell them for some solid gold.. (f.e. Throne already dropped by like 100g as far as I know)
(Also I'd like to be able to sell them even though I haven't bought any gold from TFW itself.. as it's really frustrating otherwise )

Hadarck's Throne; I'd rather see adding more cards working against it, than making it require a MF domain. As was said.. it'd completely take this card out of game except pure MF decks.. (because who'd cast it as 3rd domain..? And it has nothing good except the fact that it's cheap.. then even that Great Oak will be better as it has 2 vision)

Fissure; good think here, I agree with this.. Though - once you're with MF gaining Glory, do you really need Fissure? (Voices has mentioned the option of the card giving this Glory to opponent.. I vote for this one as a best option.)

Caravan; is not going to be played anymore. Have you ever tried to play it - seriously? It eats up ALL your flux income (unless you've claimed more wells - and then you don't need this, or at least you shouldn't) - for FIVE turns! That's like 12 flux given to opponent for gaining a field advantage and then lysising your Caravan, or moving a creature on your Rift or whatever.. Caravan is really not THAT easy to be played as it might seem.

Nether Plasma; despite it's hard for me (I like it also) I think this change's gonna be good. Especially with Aurora it was 'get it - win!' combo.

420 last price at the moment, but I don't think (I may be wrong though) it dropped since jed announced that it may be changed.



True, MF decks run to the centre and get easily the glory advantage needed for the following fissure.

Problem is, with current rules even if you manage to stop them from gaining glory by conquering the central flux yourself, a fissure on your advanced building (or the one on the back if any creature managed to slip near your base) is devastating and gives an advantage which is worth FAR more than 4 glory. So, the contest is often just based on whoever draws it first.

With the proposed new rule at least this would be fixed. Yes, the you'd be forced to run for the central well too...

In any case, I definitely prefer a fissure which requires 4 glory than one which gives 4 to the opponent.



In my view, the combo rift - caravan is quite easy to set in place and to play for the win. Too easy. And it allows other combos as well (ever seen multiple mahal+caravan? sweet). I think a change is needed, without nerfing the card too brutally.

Just realized Thrones are biggest thread to my currently best deck in Beta
But neverthless I still vote for another cards working against it.
Here's my try; Mirror of Domains - please have a look at it and help me finish it

Faxos; except the Caravan stuff I suppose you're right

(It might seem as an easy thing to do to you.. but for how long are you using it? (if) I do for quite some time so I know this card kinda well..)

What about enchantments? Would it get +1 controlled space with Seat of the Essences, or is that an ability? This is a pretty big nerf. Not sure it really affects anyone, but its always nice to dream of an unbeatable magic deck. Caravan, sig's arena, and benefits of a clear mind helped me beat SARSAI in 5 moves. It was magical.

Cavetroll once posted that he thinks that cards and combos that allow a win prior to round ten are bad for the game. To a certain extent I agree but it's nice to have some cards and combos that would appear to allow for an easier win without unbalancing the game.

Caravan: I agree that the rift combo is out of control, but without any movement bonus from a spell or ability, caravan is simply useless. Any two creatures, mountains, water, or even just killing it before it gets home becomes a basic task. If you buffed it with fear(0) or hover, people might try to move it back but otherwise it would only be playable with bronze statue, epicenter, isolated monastary, slate hut, waiting 4 turns for a construction site to complete, or emminent domain(!). These are rather wishful scenarios.

Fissure: Im in favor. I hate fissure.

Plasma: When I first saw the resurrection of a plasma, I was surprised that it had tokens. That being said, if someone wants to use 9 spots in their deck for plasmas, altar of ixes, and ragarnoks, I'll take my chances against the rest of the deck. If you toss in 3 soul plagues and a lot of time rounds spent moving and rearranging plasmas, best case scenario is 162 flux. That's a heck of a humiliation. In practice, I havent seen more than 15-20 flux benefit. You can do the same thing with scorched horizons + slave market &/or astridian baazar.

Throne: I agree with the prior analysis: Making throne harder to play for non-MF decks only helps the already dominant MF domain. It really doesnt do anything to thwart MF other than eliminating first turn combos like throne+caravan, throne+glimspe, or just hiding throne in a corner island before playing a vision building. If this is what you are trying to prevent, may I suggest buffing it to give control over the hex it is stands on. While this would lead to some first move resignations while people get used to it, it would essentially prevent anyone from using on their first move.

EDIT: I think it's called slate hut, not mud shelter.

What TFP said about NP!


No Nerfing the NP!!!

_________________

Altren wrote:

I agree with Keyser, and that's what I'm planning to implement actually.

|| The Rise of the DCC | Plasmatium Netherious | Tastes Like Chicken | The Astridian Conspiracy ||

Guild -> | Platypus Rising|