dim is slightly worse than once per round since it comes into play dimmed and there are very few ways to undim a building. Personally I don't think adding dimming is enough to significantly reduce the usage of altar of ix. I find that much of the time i use it, i only sacrifice one creature at a time since i usually don't need all the flux and the third np often gets used for a different effect. By adding dim it forces me to play altar first and delays 2 of the flux for 1 turn. Aside from np, I rarely ever sacrifice creatures of my own to ix. The times that i do use altar multiple times in one turn are generally when i've been saving up np since im worried about dispel flux or i draw into a second one and don't need more bodies on the field.

I'm in favor of the dim to use nerf since it will not impact me too much but it will impact the more combo oriented decks. It would be nice to see some annoying cards from other top decks nerfed as well.

_________________
ȁ̎̉̈̂̎͋̈́̍n͂͑̿ͥͣ́̓ġͤ͑ͯe͌̓̊ͩ͗̅l̽̓ͬͬͥ̊͗aͣ̔̃ͧ̓̾̾t͊̑̆hͤ͆̓̉̌ͣ̚e̋ͩ͒̈́ĭ̌̒̎ͧ̓̋ͪs̋ͤͧ̅̇̋̎ͫ̂̾ͨ̽̄ͫͯt͒͐̌ͭ̂̃ͪ̽ͣ͗̒ͣ

I'm not convinced it's OP.

Think about it. Ord Stone cost you 3 flux, but gives you one extra flux per turn for the rest of the game (unless it is killed). It has 2 hitpoints.

Altar costs 6 flux, and only gives you flux acceleration when combo'd with Rift or NP. It has 3 hit points.

Nerfing it will most likely shift the game back to MF being dominant.

Yes, Altar provides help in flux and domain acceleration, but DL needs this, because almost every good DL card costs 3 domain and requires a significant amount of flux. DL is weighted in this manner, as proven time and time again that DL's biggest weakness is against Rush decks that destroy domain providing buildings before 3 domain becomes possible.

If you MUST nerf Altar, try making it useable only twice per round (rather than once per round).


Dimming it will weaken it way too much.

_________________

Altren wrote:

I agree with Keyser, and that's what I'm planning to implement actually.

|| The Rise of the DCC | Plasmatium Netherious | Tastes Like Chicken | The Astridian Conspiracy ||

Guild -> | Platypus Rising|

You just made the point I think is the problem with Ix...

Ord stone you get one extra flux per turn....

Ix you get it all on the same turn...(add in a second np or gather spirits is even worse)

Ix is autodrawn, gives control, and gives domain

Almost all player of Np/Ix have come out and said they believe it OP'd...

@Keyser...You started a Topic on this very thing...So you started a discussion because you thought it was fine?

http://thefarwilds.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=1902

_________________

Heh..... yup, I started the topic.. but did you read it? I said that I didn't feel NP was OP, but that it was pretty darn hard to come back from an opponent that has TWO NP's in the first couple of hands.

By the same token... it's also hard to come back from an opponent that has TWO negates back to back, or two Disenchants, or two possessions during a key turn when one is disenchanted or negated, etc, etc.


Many cards are OP when drawn two in one hand...





Themist... you've made this huge complaint about Alter/IX, but (too play devil's advocate).. (and you know I respect ya man, so don't take this as an attack)... if NP/IX is OP, what about Fort/Mahal/other two domain buildings/spam that you usually beat me with?

A first turn Ord Stone followed by recurring Mahals with Forts/Spheres/Etc is insanely difficult to deal with EVEN if I do have flux accel with Alter...

_________________

Altren wrote:

I agree with Keyser, and that's what I'm planning to implement actually.

|| The Rise of the DCC | Plasmatium Netherious | Tastes Like Chicken | The Astridian Conspiracy ||

Guild -> | Platypus Rising|

No worries...I don't take it as an attack...I hope you didn't take my last post as such as well.

I knew that my deck would eventually be brought up...

1) My style of deck has not over taken the TFW

2) My deck even with a great draw does not have the flux/domain accel that Np/Ix has

3) MF/Elem has no where close the amount of 3 domain power cards that DL (Combined they might!)

4) Ord stones not autodrawn and are taken out pretty easy (Plus they were already nerfed down to 2 hp with no complaints)

5) There are a TON of other uses for Np and Ix

6) Things like this have already been fixed in the pass and we make fun of the fact that they existed in their previous forms.

Again I go back to my argument that cards are made 3 domain in order to time when during the game they are played. So, probably a bad idea to have them being played in round 3 or 4.

I'd like to reiterate I'm not saying all of this so I myself have a easier time against certain decks. I believe the amount of players (most of whom play the combo) admitting that they feel there is something wrong is proof enough.

P.S. Do you really think there is the same level of excitement of having 2 disenchants or Negates in opening hand as there is with two Np's in opening hand?

_________________

Honestly, I think most people are blowing this combo way out of proportion. It is overpowered but not game breakingly so.

I run dl almost exclusively because it was the domain I picked when I started and my best cards are in it. I've won one ec out of lke 50, and that's only because I got a bye and someone dced while beating me. You'd think that with NP + Ix and several dl rares I would win more games. One might conclude that my wins are because of NP + Ix and my losses are because the other player was skilled enough to overcome my gamebreaking advantage... However, I have a decent limited rating and my constructed deck is not bad. Why am I not winning more if Ix is so powerful?

Here are some deck motifs I consistently see winning EC over dl (is there nothing close to the power of NP/Ix in these decks?):

* sylvan rush w/ dispel flux; sylvan rush w/ vessels and serfs
* mahal spam w/ overclock
* building spam w/ attrition
* chaos w/ turmoil, freehold, totems; essene phoenix

my theory is that if the ix ability returned one (instead of two) flux, it would still be the most commonly used domain source in competitive games, excluding basics and diplomats. and I think that (after an initial backlash) DL would continue to be the strongest pick in domain. I think NP would continue be a good card, especially as a combo with nightmares, crypt doctor, and/or feeder. optionally, requirements for NP could be lowered by one domain OR one flux.

krakhoar et al:

You are not winning more because so DAMN many other players are also running the exact same Domain brother!

An absolute plethora of legit decks can be run in an EC by the elite of the 1337. But why is DL by far the most popular? Maybe its cards are the cheapest? Or possibly because red is the coolest color for gaming geeks? Perchance we are in the matrix and the machines are tricking our minds? Or could it be that DL is the most powerful? What if, and this is totally crazy and way out in left field, Altar of Ix allows such rapid domain acceleration that you can can frequently have a Blind Assassin on the map by round 3 or 4? (Or a whole slew of other 3 Domain DL nastiness for that matter). Hmmm, I just don't know what the correct answer is... [slight sarcasm]

The balance of power will hopefully shift with this nerfing. That is the point. I vote to allow 1-2 uses per turn maximum without dimming. It could be too much of a nerf, but that seems the most logical from my perspective. (Leaning towards 2 per turn, to be honest).

Ord Stone does not tech in the right direction AND does not "earn" you 1 flux until round 5 at the EARLIEST!! It is very good, but not in the same leauge as Altar of Stix.

Do you concede?

DarkJello

_________________
Ad astra per alia porci!$!

Second Jello.