Psyclone: Which spells/enchants do you think are too strong or that take away from the game?

Do you think the buffs so far contribute to this?

Jed, how far do you want to go in improving unused cards.

Do you want to make it so that every card... from common to odd.... is "good"?

I hope not.

Any ccg needs bad cards, ok cards, sometimes used cards, and great cards. imho

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Altren wrote:

I agree with Keyser, and that's what I'm planning to implement actually.

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why do you think it needs bad cards? I think every ccg has bad cards. that doesn't mean that it needs them.

I am not sure if "need' and "bad" are the right terms. TFW already has over 200 creatures and 500 cards and it is still fairly new. I think it inevitable that some cards will be markedly better than others unless there is a lot of similiarity between cards. That would be pretty boring, IMO. Talking about card strength is always in relation to the other cards in the game. I think it's great you are working to make all cards playable, but don't expect to get to point where the general consensus is that there are no bad cards.

Of course, but Keyser wrote that the game needs bad cards. That's what Jed was replying to.

I TOTALLY AGREE! I've been very concerned with all the buffing of cards that has been going on. In this thread, a few cards are getting nerfed that probably need it, but for every card that's getting nerfed, three are getting buffed.

Some of the cards getting buffed that supposedly aren't that good are still being used in Limited. I think most of the opinions offered have been ignoring Limited games. Constructed decks are going to be loaded with triplicates of a lot of the best/most useful cards, but limited games are just that, limited. Sometimes you have to include some of these less desirable cards and that's fine.

I personally like limited games because the decks are much weaker overall and it the gameplay is much better imo because of it.

I also think that the cards in this game (all cards collectively) are too good on average.

I still don't get it. Would Limited be worse off because there are fewer cards that are generally bad? You seem to mean something particular with the word "bad", but I don't understand what it is.

I do think it is a good thing to make every card playable. I don't really understand the argument against doing that?

Psyclone: Which spells/enchants do you think are too strong or that take away from the game? And if you think some of the buffs make a card too strong in limited please let me know.

I'd say its impossible to make all cards good (I'm defining this as part of a viable constructed deck), but it's a good goal to aim for. I see no reason why any ccg should want to have cards that are effectively trash which no one would use in a deck. That said, with enough cards there will always be some of those but that doesn't mean there shouldn't be an effort to buff them.

I'm worried about buffing cards that are already seeing play in Limited but not Constructed. Some of the reason you might not be seeing a card played a lot is because of the formats (eg - constructed, sealed, draft, etc). In Constructed, which is by far the most played format, people are mostly playing the better cards/combos. If you buff cards based on Constructed alone, then you will constantly be buffing and rebalancing cards. In constructed, many people play exactly 40 cards and 12-13 of them in triplicate. Almost every deck will have triplicates of a handful of staple cards, such as 3x Sunburst, 3x Tremor, 3x NP, 3x Crypt Doctor, 3x Lysis, 3x Ord Stone, 3x Negate, 3x Weenie1, 3x Weenie2, etc… you get the point. Because of this, you aren't going to see a lot of variation in Constructed formats.

I don't really mind the current changes because most of them were very minor (-1 cost, mountainstride, etc), but I'm also seeing suggestions to buff cards like Prodigal Entropene, Lightning Elemental, Quorum Stone, Lightning Bolt, Cloud Tether, etc. These cards, and many others, actually see a decent amount of play in Limited but (almost) never make it into Constructed.

Limited games are just that, limited. So 99% of the time, decks are slower, weaker, and have far less synergy than constructed decks. Tweaking a card's cost or other minor things such as adding mountainstride isn’t that big of a deal... I’m just afraid of buffing cards that are already useful in Limited because people don’t see or use them in Constructed.