This thread is for discussing which - if any - cards and combos that came up with the new set might be a bit too good, or that might limit variety in future decks.

Here's my list (I may be wrong, but it's good to discuss this balance stuff as early and as much as possible, isn't it?):

Woven Shadows: With this it's fairly easy to destroy opponent's starting building even on 3rd round, if you draw both a Woven and Athal the Horrible (or is it terrible lol). Another good use is to cast a Rithig next to their buildings on 4th round, and immediately throw a building away from the flux point, maybe into a lake if that's your thing. When the woven creatue is at the end of its lifespan, just cast nefarious research on it, followed by raw power and reanimate. Phoenix doesn't even require reanimate to work, although it has its drawbacks compared to the titans.

Goblin Slave Market: Double your card drawing with a card requiring 2 domains and 2 flux to cast. Deadly when combo'd with Raw Powers, Astridian Forums, Scorched Horizons, and other obvious stuff. If giving away the glory worries you, you can always pack Heatwaves to counter the effect. This setup gives a very powerful basis for both building and aggro decks, and even for alternative glory gaining methods.

Cull The Weak: This spell could obliterate all weenie decks and most other non-building decks as well with a relatively cheap casting cost.

Revenant Bishop: Can't say it better than Cave already did in this thread: http://thefarwilds.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=1255

Just want to say that I agree about the woven shadows. It should be more expensive or require two domains so one has a chance to get up some kind of defence. Fast decks that can get a lucky draw and win the game in less than ten turns is not good for the game. If they don't even have to be lucky it is of course even worse.

I also agree about cull the weak. I don't like this card for the same reasons I don't like soul plague and earthquake. These cards has not been used very much so far as I've seen, but I don't like "bomb cards" - cards that singelhandedly can take out all the cards your oponent has. I don't mind if the bomb is a creature like agent of death since it only takes one card to deal with it.

I disagree with what has been said about cull of the weak.

What's wrong with a "bomb" card? Every CCG that I've played has them: MTG's Wrath of God, Infest, Armaggedon, etc, etc, etc.

Such cards affect BOTH players, not just one player. If they were one sided, then they'd be way overpowered, but they aren't.

It requires rearranging your strategy. I, for one, really like the idea that weenie decks have to now consider cull of the weak in their strategies. It will make cards like Telda Bloom and Reform more apt to be in a deck.

There are several cards in the new set that benefit from having lots of creatures: creatures next to a building giving domain, creature next to a bulding keeping that building alive, creatures next to each other saving from blizzard, etc. Cull of the weak provides a creative answer AND a creative strategy element.

It's like Hailstorm, only different.

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Altren wrote:

I agree with Keyser, and that's what I'm planning to implement actually.

|| The Rise of the DCC | Plasmatium Netherious | Tastes Like Chicken | The Astridian Conspiracy ||

Guild -> | Platypus Rising|

*AHEM* If you use Woven Shadows OR Summoning Circle to bring Rithig into play, you can use his special ability THAT turn. He doesn't have to dim, it's just that he can only do it once per round. So on the next round you could attack AND smack another figure across the map!

Hats off to Galorix, he's built a ridiculously overpowered building deck that relies on shield generators (and storm factories to keep creatures away), time of heroics to control creatures, and buildings with attack to control and destroy.

Considering I was using an anti-building deck, it should have been pretty easy for me to dominate, but the generators and ToH were absolutely ridiculously deadly.

Suggestions: Have ToH apply to all figures for a controller (he was able to attack multiple times with different buildings). It's essentially overclock, but with buildings immune right now.

Shield Generators either need to be armor (1) or not stack. It's way too easy to get a ton of them out there, especially with blueprint, and have things that can't even be scratched with an epic vet.

Range for ballistae and trebuchet should be knocked down to 3.

Astridian Geo Society needs to be re-thought. There are too many sploit decks that use it to great effect.

I agree that Woven Shadows, Goblin Slave Market, and Revenant Bishop are too good.

I'm still on the fence about Cull the Weak. It's definitely powerful, but I don't think it's any more devastating to weenies than Drain Blood is.

While not outright broken, I think that Faceless Lord is just a little too good. This card hampers weenie decks. Like Astridian Diplomat it accelerates domain while throwing down a 1/4 body. However, unlike Astridian Diplomat, Faceless Lord comes out early enough that the 1/4 body is extremely relevant. I would still gladly play it if it had only 3 health.

The thing about cards like Cull the weak is that they do only affect one player when the one using them is prepared for it. Like a building deck with no creatures. I've played building deck with soulplague aloth, and it's won me many games. Even though i like to win with my building deck i must admidt that these game is not so enjoyable as a creature deck is. So I hope we will not see aloth of controll decks like we do in MtG. I also think that MtG would be more enjoyable without Wrath of God, and the fact that all TCG has them doesnt makes it fun.

I also support that Shield generator needs some nerfing, due to the fact that I do not think we need building decks to be more powerfull than they are. And it is mostly building deck that will use this card i think. Maybe it should only affect ajacent buildings?

Well woven got changed, I'd say it's balanced now. Bishop is about to get changed, and seemed it will be pretty much in balance as well.

Shield Generators are defintely extremely strong in a building deck, as are Times of Heroics and Trebuchets, though it's not so bad with the last one maybe. When used in conjunction with mana domes or the 1 flux guys who prevent spells and enchants within 1, there isn't much the opponent can do.

I changed my mind about the Slave Market. I doubt that matters much though, but I'll say it just in case, cos I like the card and don't want to see it get changed. Looks like the glory giving might keep it pretty much balanced afterall. Well, of course it can be used for sinkhole if opponent's glory starts to get too high. Also, Heat Waves have worked pretty well with it in a type of deck I've been playing. But I'd still hate to see it get nerfed because it's the only usable constant draw thingy there is. It allows new types of decks that may be hard to play against at first, but shouldn't be unbeatable. Running out of cards becomes a risk too even if opponent's glory can be kept down.

Culling the Weak... on a second thought decks with mostly guys who die to Cull are still overprevalent, even after ascent was nerfed. Cull might be a healthy balancer for that? Then again it's another weapon for those annoying building decks that just got even much better after expansion. Well, luckily I don't have to or get to decide whether to nerf it or not.

After the 2 aforementioned cards have been nerfed, to me it looks a lot like Fissure and Negate will still be the most game breaking "too good" cards. Training may not be as bad anymore, though it might still be included in 90% of competitive non-building decks.

Even at 2 domain, I think Woven Shadows is still dangerous because it breaks the fundamental mechanic for balancing cards: cost. Even if nothing is broken now, it causes problems every time you want to make a powerful creature in a future set because you have to make sure it isn't broken with woven shadows. As such, it closes off parts of the design space.

Right now it gives 3 upsides:

1) Spawn wherever in sight you want (surprise! titan by your base!)
2) Ignore domain requirements
3) Ignore flux requirement

Any one of these alone is balanced and in fact already present to some extent on various cards:

1) Lightning Elemental
2) Glimpse of Greatness
3) Gather Spirits, etc

However, I think the combination is too much and one of them should go. Suggested alternatives

1) Eliminate the spawn anywere revealed
2) Make it 3 domain
3) Raise the flux cost to 5
4) Make the flux cost X, where X is the cost of the card cast.

Cull the Weak

I think this is too much, especially against the Imperium. Depending on how you count some of the adjustable creatures, it kills approximately 20/32 creatures in their domain. I spent a little while trying to come up with a creature dependent deck for the Imperium that the card wouldn't trash and I couldn't.

I suggest adding some sort of counterbalance. For example, each player draws a card for each of his creatures killed by it. This eliminates the massive card advantage against weenie decks, and they can presumably recast their lost creatures cheaply.