Sunyaku:

1) Agreed. This was implied when I typed "Democracy and capitalism" in my post. The "ultra rich" are in control of governments everywhere.

2) "Providing for the general welfare" can be interpreted a whole slew of different ways. Capitalism out of control is bad, socialism out of control is bad.

3) Illegal immigration is a problem. I said people DO have the ability to choose. Governments that have been too powerful have afflicted mankind since the beginning of time. Absolute power corrupts absolutely. Americans already have basic health services available via a government safety net. My family received these exact services during the past 2.5 years while I earned a postgraduate degree. Thank you America! Again, in case you missed it every other time, I have over 10 years of real world experience within the health care system in an underserved area. I am speaking from personal knowledge.

Medicare is 100% a form of socialized medicine, and it is also a fact that it is in disgraceful tatters financially. (Not really something you want to wave around as an example of success).

I also agree that governments should "protect and provide for its people", but the question is how best to do so. IMO, giving further power and wealth to the ultra rich, self-absorbed, corrupt, incompetent government is not the answer. And that holds true whether Repooplicans or Democraps are en vogue. Thanks for the hug, now if I could only figure out how to give you a virtual hug back...

DarkJello

P.S. Just to clarify, all my opinions are based on personal and professional real world experiences and in NO way reflect the opinions or philosophical beliefs of tfw management! Go forth and conquer valiant gamers!

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Ad astra per alia porci!$!

I think the trolls have an award for that!

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Altren wrote:

I agree with Keyser, and that's what I'm planning to implement actually.

|| The Rise of the DCC | Plasmatium Netherious | Tastes Like Chicken | The Astridian Conspiracy ||

Guild -> | Platypus Rising|

Wow, my thread turned political! I suppose I should get a troll award for that, too. I can display it next to Sunyaku's award on the TFW trophy shelf.

My 2.6 cents say this:

Medicare is a good system for those that truly need it, that use it as it should be used, and that do not abuse it.

However -- and this is a big however -- the system is flawed. It allows for people to have more kids for the sole purpose of getting a bigger check from the government each month.

The system is flawed -- Have you ever been in line at the grocery store and seen someone buy food with foodstamps? I have seen such a person wearing designer jewelry and clothes and drive away in a Mercedes.

The system is too big, has too many loopholes for corrupt people to abuse, is too tied down with paperwork and bureaucracy...

Rather than increasing the size of socialized medicine on the model of a program that is currently losing money, in financial tatters, and being abused -- the government should work to fix a corrupt and failing system before trying to expand it.

Making a bad system bigger doesn't make it better.

But a system that allows for abuse will be abused, especially because so many people feel that they are entitled to free stuff (see first post ).

With that said: I personally believe that if we were dealing with trustworthy, caring, honest, sympathetic, loving people -- if everyone was like that -- then a socialized system could work.

Historically, socialized governments don't work, because corruption finds it way into the highest levels and the system gets abused.

Interestling enough, it seems the early Christians practiced a community sharing: Acts 4:32-35 "All the believers were one in heart and mind. No one claimed that any of his possessions was his own, but they shared everything they had. With great power the apostles continued to testify to the resurrection of the Lord Jesus, and much grace was upon them all. There were no needy persons among them. For from time to time those who owned lands or houses sold them, brought the money from the sales and put it at the apostles' feet, and it was distributed to anyone as he had need. "

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Altren wrote:

I agree with Keyser, and that's what I'm planning to implement actually.

|| The Rise of the DCC | Plasmatium Netherious | Tastes Like Chicken | The Astridian Conspiracy ||

Guild -> | Platypus Rising|

No love for me

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Altren wrote:

I agree with Keyser, and that's what I'm planning to implement actually.

|| The Rise of the DCC | Plasmatium Netherious | Tastes Like Chicken | The Astridian Conspiracy ||

Guild -> | Platypus Rising|

TFW players are awesome. Not everyone these days can have a fairly civilized discussion about hot political topics. Rock on. (^_^)

I watched "The Story of Stuff" yesterday. There were many valid points. Some of the specific claims were partisan, incorrect, or both. But I do agree that capitalism and greed are currently out of control in the USA and abroad. What I call the religion of selfishness and mediocrity is nearly omnipotent in the USA currently, and is/will morally bankrupt the country.

Regarding health care in the US, see Keyser's logical post for reasons why I believe the major focus should be centered on fixing the "flat tire" before trying to drive the car another 50 miles. A common query from posters here has been about how there could possibly be so much corruption. And I am a little surprised that people cannot fathom how corruption could occur so easily, especially considering it has been one of the constants of our experience as a species. The following is just one example of how to easily cheat the US health care system:

Open your own business. Pay for as many of your personal living expenses as possible with the business credit. Car(s), house, and anything else you can think of. Now claim that you only make $20K per year for a family of 5 people. Voila, you are officially living below the poverty level! You and yours qualify for government health insurance, reduced lunches at school, and possibly even food stamps. Very nice! I know quite a few families in this small community that live in $180K houses, have multiple new vehicles, a 5th wheel, ATV's, etc... and they qualify for all kinds of government assistance. It truly is that easy. And that is just one of many ways to cheat the system. Discard morality and get ready for "help" from the government for your "needy" family.

I appreciate the comments and insights shared by all posters throughout this thread. My research did reveal some errors in my understanding of events here and abroad. Hopefully nobody wants to assassinate me because of my big mouth. But you can destroy me in tfw instead if that helps... But you will have to earn it fair and square!

Searching for truth,

DarkJello, now in purple--a tasty blend of Red and Blue

P.S. Nobody cares a whit about the fact that my largest pumpkin was stolen?

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Ad astra per alia porci!$!

Ode to the Pumpkin:
We miss you, juicy sweet globe.
Enjoy your haiku.

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Altren wrote:

I agree with Keyser, and that's what I'm planning to implement actually.

|| The Rise of the DCC | Plasmatium Netherious | Tastes Like Chicken | The Astridian Conspiracy ||

Guild -> | Platypus Rising|

Political hugs?
Is that a new politically correct phrase?


I dunno, I think demo's greatest weakness is the possibility that slightly half the country dislikes you. And in your leadership role, you have to make decisions that may effect your coming campaign, and thus my atcually do what the majority wants, not what it needs.

I believe not having to go thru all that atcually makes for more extremes than mediocrity. With a good ruler, your country and really go far. Some of the biggest conquests and civilizations are not demos, but more supposedly "oppressive" and what not goverment types. And on the other hand, the worse tend to be the said goverments. Democracy, imo, is the one thats the "safe" mediocrity goverment.
(hmm didnt come out as well as i thought, but u get my point?)


I hope you are not implying...... something?

I am truly impressed of what happened here. Because we have been able to talk about very difficult matters that do not only reflect our way of the world, they also reflect our view of ourselves in this world.

As Sunyaku said TFW players are awesome.

We started with big disagrees and at the end some of us have find some truth on what the others were saying. Now, even if I still disagree with some of the comments, I do agree with the central parts of then. (It is difficult to explain in English for me) But is like disagree with the little flower that decorate the house when I do agree with the hole house.

Political hug for every one