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jed
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Post subject: Re: Possible changes with release of borderlands  Posted: Mon Oct 19, 2009 5:34 pm |
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Joined: Tue Jan 08, 2008 2:07 am
Posts: 1045
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Keyser: Yeah it doesn't seem good that every top deck uses throne just for the cheap domain. I don't think everyone will be playing mono-MF with the change. Quote: It either wins relatively decisively (once all the above criteria are met) or loses pitifully when it doesn't get the draw or gets rushed and domain buildings destroyed. Decks that do this don't make for a fun game. It just makes TFW a complicated coin flip.
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Keyser
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Post subject: Re: Possible changes with release of borderlands Posted: Mon Oct 19, 2009 6:20 pm |
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| The Dark Platypus |
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Joined: Fri Jun 12, 2009 12:48 am
Posts: 951
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Jed,
Would you do me the favor of playing a couple of games against Voices and Uraxor and Galorix and Nayen and CaveTroll while using my version of the NP/Rag/LoC deck before deciding to nerf the combo?
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doiron
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Post subject: Re: Possible changes with release of borderlands Posted: Mon Oct 19, 2009 8:49 pm |
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Joined: Sun Nov 02, 2008 10:04 pm
Posts: 348
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Keyser, I realize you think this change is unnecessary but really the situation is that this combo is both not intended and also out of balance. If anything, you could say that this is a bug fix since the plasma didn't have tokens before it died and after you use Rag it magically has tokens again.
Furthermore, it doesn't completely nerf the combo at all. You still wind up with a lot of plasmas, just not a ridiculous amount.
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jed
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Post subject: Re: Possible changes with release of borderlands Posted: Mon Oct 19, 2009 9:07 pm |
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Joined: Tue Jan 08, 2008 2:07 am
Posts: 1045
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Keyser: it also isn't just for that combo. There will always be issues with multiplying plasmas if it stays the way it is.
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Keyser
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Post subject: Re: Possible changes with release of borderlands Posted: Mon Oct 19, 2009 9:11 pm |
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| The Dark Platypus |
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Joined: Fri Jun 12, 2009 12:48 am
Posts: 951
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I respectfully lay down the leadership of SPPINP. I admit defeat. You shall hear no more from me on the NP issue.
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Ugly_Pug
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Post subject: Re: Possible changes with release of borderlands Posted: Wed Oct 21, 2009 3:00 am |
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Joined: Fri Jul 03, 2009 9:50 pm
Posts: 132
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This decision bothers me in some ways. Foreshadowing Ragnarock brings creatures back to life. There is nothing in the text which indicates the creatures may be altered when they are brought back. To pick a few examples from the original set consider Carrion Feeder and Wind Mogi. When a Feeder is resurrected by Ragnarock is it recreated with the number of tokens it died with or start over from zero? Does a Wind Mogi have 0 tokens or the number it died with? The point is… Doesn’t Foreshadowing Ragnarock resurrect creatures as they are when cast, not as they were when they died?
While it is true the spawned Nether Plasmas initially had no tokens, the original Nether Plasma did have tokens. Not giving tokens to creatures which initially had none may be construed as fixing a bug, but not restoring a creature to the state it was in when cast violates the spirit of Foreshadowing Ragnarock. I do not think a card which is supposed to treat all creatures identically should be able to make an exception for one creature. This, to me, sets a bad precedent. In addition, what if the Plasma never had a chance to spawn before it died? Unlikely, true, but Lysis and Soul Plague come to mind. Not giving that poor Plasma tokens after being resurrected by Ragnarock just seems wrong.
I think the best answer is to change how Nether Plasma operates. And to create a new creature, maybe called “Spawn of Nether Plasma” or perhaps "Baby Nether Plasma". It would be identical to Nether Plasma, but possess no tokens. Instead of Nether Plasma spawning an exact copy of itself, have it spawn a Spawn. When Ragnarock gets played, the original Nether Plasmas get tokens as they should, but the Spawns will not since they had none to start.
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headshot
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Post subject: Re: Possible changes with release of borderlands Posted: Wed Oct 21, 2009 4:32 pm |
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Joined: Fri Jul 31, 2009 9:12 am
Posts: 270
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Ugly_Pug wrote: I do not think a card which is supposed to treat all creatures identically should be able to make an exception for one creature. The change does not require Ragnarok making an exception with Plasma, as it can be addressed in Plasma's text, for example: "Comes with 2 spawn counters if played from your hand".
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Zurken
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Post subject: Re: Possible changes with release of borderlands Posted: Wed Oct 21, 2009 6:53 pm |
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Joined: Fri Mar 27, 2009 8:01 pm
Posts: 526
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I also agree with rewording Plasmas, I think it's the best solution here!
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DarkJello
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Post subject: Re: Possible changes with release of borderlands Posted: Wed Oct 21, 2009 10:01 pm |
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Joined: Mon Jul 27, 2009 6:30 pm
Posts: 281
Location: Atmosphere of Magisteria
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All of this spawning talk has prompted me to be nice to my wife for as long as it takes.  On a different note, go to http://www.despair.com for some great laughs when you have a chance. Jazzingly,  DarkJello
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Ad astra per alia porci!$!
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Ugly_Pug
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Post subject: Re: Possible changes with release of borderlands Posted: Thu Oct 22, 2009 12:45 am |
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Joined: Fri Jul 03, 2009 9:50 pm
Posts: 132
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Changing the text on Nether Plasma as suggested above eliminates the inconsistancies regarding how Ragnarock operates on Nether Plasma as opposed to every other creature.
But it does not change the fact that Nether Plasma will be the only creature resurrected by Ragnarock into a condition different from which it was cast.
I guess I'll still be able to sleep at night if this happens, but it doesn't seem right to me.
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