This change has 2 side effects I don't know that I like:

1) an increase in minimum deck size. Previously I could run 5 basics and have 35 other cards. Now since basics no longer count towards my limit I am forced to have a larger deck

2) You can force an particular "fated" card to be in your starting hand by only running one type. For example you can guarantee a Throne in your starting hand or any base you particularly want to play.

@doiron and angelatheist:

Giving the "goes to bottom of deck when removed" to only default buildings is not a good solution! It would give too much advantage to mono-domain decks over multiple-domain ones, because usually it doesn't make any sense to have basic buildings of more than one domain in a constructed deck. Thus, multiple-domain decks would be again forced to pack huge amounts of domain cards or risk losing to domain denial.

Giving the text to at least all cards that have salvage would make it right. In fact, that should be good since it would still leave the only very cheap and good domain card out: throne.

@Jed:

Very few of the longtime players seem to like the new idea of being able to play defaults whenever. Maybe you could make a poll in the game talk section or something before you decide? I for one would probably switch to other nerdy activities if this change was implemented. Now before anyone says / thinks "and nothing of value was lost", I'm sure there are others too.

Personally, I prefer the original autodraw system. I'm OK with the one that autodraws buildings that weren't in your deck when all the ones in your deck are gone. I really don't like the current version that draws buildings that aren't in your deck first hand.

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Altren wrote:

I agree with Keyser, and that's what I'm planning to implement actually.

|| The Rise of the DCC | Plasmatium Netherious | Tastes Like Chicken | The Astridian Conspiracy ||

Guild -> | Platypus Rising|

doiron: your solution of having the autodraw add the buildings to the bottom of your deck rather than your hand helps but doesn't fix the case with say a treent deck that has no bases. You would still get a grove in your hand on round 2.

headshot: seems like an overreaction. any of the purposed changes wouldn't really alter the game fundamentally.

Could you just make it so that autodraw draws the next base/domain in your base (as described in the wiki). If and only if there are no more bases in your deck, it would then draw a basic domain base.

This would prevent issues like the one that started this thread.

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Altren wrote:

I agree with Keyser, and that's what I'm planning to implement actually.

|| The Rise of the DCC | Plasmatium Netherious | Tastes Like Chicken | The Astridian Conspiracy ||

Guild -> | Platypus Rising|

actually i dont like the way this works.. since this means u dont need to put anymore basic domains in ur deck !! And is a big change in the game!!

It could happen, but like something u choose and with somekind of cost, like 2 glory or like...

How about this: you could return it to the way it was, and rather change the problematic domain denial cards (fissure, negate, sinkhole) to make them return target to bottom of deck instead. Those were the only problem and cause for this change unless I'm mistaken so such a simple change to those cards would make it right. And if fissure is changed it could get the -4 glory back while you are at it, it wasn't too strong for anything else than domain denial. The nerf was way too heavy. For the same reason Skullduggery is never used even though it would be extremely powerful without the glory cost.

EDIT: Shuffling to deck would be a possibility for fissure too. That way it wouldn't be so bad on non-autodrawing cards.

I concur.

Brilliant thinking, hs.

Make it so, Jed. Make it so.

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Altren wrote:

I agree with Keyser, and that's what I'm planning to implement actually.

|| The Rise of the DCC | Plasmatium Netherious | Tastes Like Chicken | The Astridian Conspiracy ||

Guild -> | Platypus Rising|

This is a good idea, now that I think. The ability to play defaults at any time without the cards would possibly be perfectly fine if it had your glory drop by 2 to minimum of 0 every time you cast one.

This would prevent the horror-image I have in mind: whoever manages to grab 3 wells faster and accelerates more flux with ord stones and such, will win the game almost inevitably because he / she can just keep spamming both default buildings and good cheap cards, because the buildings wouldn't even take a draw (or effectively even flux after some point because of salvage). This would not be possible if every default took your glory back by 2!

Another possibility would be skipping the next draw for playing a default, and limiting them to max 1 per round.

EDIT: To make it clear, I would be in favor (not that it matters much unless others agree, so please state so if you do) of this new mechanics if it got either of those tweaks I mentioned. Both might be too much - or maybe not, hard to say really. It could be argued both are needed because they fix completely separate problems: glory subtraction works to prevent default-building-spamming for sure victory and the skipping next draw & max 1 per round works to prevent card advantage from defaults not requiring a draw.

EDIT2: Diplomats and all the other currently autodrawing cards should remain "fated" or multidomained decks would be hurt too badly. Would be nice to know more about what that word "fated" means and what cards would get it.

I also think the original Autodraw is really the way to go. Possibly with a few other domain cards that can be recycled like Vapor Mahal, but I don't think all of them should be.

Domain denial should be a valid, but not overpowered strategy. Now taking out a basic building that still has salvage on it feels practically useless.

At present, multi-domain is very dominant over single domain. If we did make a change which favored single-domain a bit, it would not be a bad thing. Right now, unless using cards which require 2 of a given domain there is very little reason not to go with 2 domains rather than 1.

"Fated" as described sounds like it would be worse than either the original or current methods as it would tend to fill your hand with fated cards. I don't like the idea of simply picking basic domain buildings as being always available and not in deck either as it greatly reduces considerations of domain need when building a deck.



Sure it would...you wouldn't be able to win by glory doing it, but you might be able to stall and win on time.