the part I quoted before -- the part about why the second auto-drawn grove starts with five salvage counters instead of six.



a diplomat sac'd in the round it is cast can give a lot more than two flux. think about crypt doctor, cinder mogi, or, perhaps biggest of all, splashing another domain for one card. you think it is reasonable that an otherwise pure dl deck should be able to play an ivory tower for 5 flux (initial investment of 12, 7 returned)? or training for free (initial investment of 7, 7 returned)?

If you control 0 flux wells, you get 2 flux at the start of a turn. If you control one well, you get 3 flux. If you control 2 wells, you get 4 flux. Therefore, having the salvage counters go down in increments of 1 would not be much of a setback for at least 2 if not 4 turns. However, having it go down in increments of 2 would be a bit more of a drawback to the salvage/autodraw infini loop of placing a building every turn if it gets destroyed



How are you getting more than 2 flux out of the diplomat? He cost 5 flux to play. If you sacrifice him to crypt doc, he returns 5 flux. That's 0 flux gain. If you sacrifice him to Ix, you will get a net of 2 flux gained. What's the problem with this? DL has gather spirits, which gives you a 3 flux gain. If you have an Altar out, Nether Plasma will give you a 3 flux gain as well. One of DL's strengths is flux acceleration, but it needs this, as a lot of it's cards are quite costly, as opposed to... let's say.. Celestial... which has a lot of very low flux costing cards.

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Altren wrote:

I agree with Keyser, and that's what I'm planning to implement actually.

|| The Rise of the DCC | Plasmatium Netherious | Tastes Like Chicken | The Astridian Conspiracy ||

Guild -> | Platypus Rising|

When you have an Altar of Ix, any 0-cost creature you cast is a Gather Spirits for 2 flux. No problem with that. The question is - is it reasonable for the Diplomat to cost 0 flux?
This 0-cost creature has 3 powerful features:

1. It is autodrawn.
2. It can be cast (and kept) as a domain giver for 5 flux. The flexibility of "gain a domain if you need it, get a 0-cost sacrifice fodder if you don't" is very effective.
3. As pointed out, it can give you a domain of your choice for the turn, and still cost 0 flux. All other cards that give one-shot domain cost more than 0.

Ok sorry to take so long to deal with this autodraw stuff. I'm putting up a test of solution 3b from Nighthawks list today.
It seems to be the simplest to understand and doesn't seem to disadvantage any particular type of deck more than another. The other option I like is having an outside button that does the same thing as this "home" building. but 3b is basically the same but with 1 less card in your hand and easier to implement.

Yeah I've been meaning to make sacrifice not give salvage for a while.

Jed, is it possible to not have it be "3b - Replace all basic buildings with a card called Basic Building that can morph into a basic of your choice and autodraws if you don't have one in hand." but "Replace all basic buildings with a card called Basic Building that can morph into a basic of your choice and autodraws if your deck has no domain sources left in it to autodraw and you don't have one in hand" ?

Also: Should this new autodraw allow the UNNERFING of Mahal? Vapor Mahal's strengths are 2 visions and the fact that, if it dies, it goes back into your deck to be autodrawn. It's disadvantage is losing one health a turn. Now, every basic building basically has the ability to be replaced when it dies, just like Mahal. Is +1 vision really worth losing one health every turn? I move that, with the new autodraw, Mahal goes back to costing 4 flux.

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Altren wrote:

I agree with Keyser, and that's what I'm planning to implement actually.

|| The Rise of the DCC | Plasmatium Netherious | Tastes Like Chicken | The Astridian Conspiracy ||

Guild -> | Platypus Rising|

Ok as I was about to upload this test Uraxor made me think of a tweak to the current system that I think might fix all the issues (maybe this was suggested before):

- Same as current system except...
- Any basic domain building you include in your deck is added to a list of External Cards.
- You can only draw cards from outside your deck from this list of External Cards

So if you have a deck that uses no bases autodraw will never give you one.

If you have a deck that uses groves and alter of ix and no Graveyards, autodraw will only pull extra groves from outside your deck not Graveyards.

Is there still some issue with this system?

Is: I want to play only Great Oak + Vapor (+Spring)
would mean later I might get myself into drawing Vapors only, when my 3 Oaks are destroyed. I'm finished there. But on the other hand one Grove would destroy this combo.
(hypothetically, of course!)

OR I want to start with Alabaster Pantheon, continue with Mahal then.. (that's more likely, because it's Mahal OR Crush of the Unknown.. hehe)


Keyser; no, it would make Mahal too OP .. getting a domain for 4f? hell I'd go for that Throne was OOP with more drawbacks

Started game with Hall, Weather in hand. (maybe one more Hall, not sure) either way, soon started to draw only hall,hall, and finally drew diplomat. Now this might be some fluke of normal draw but the chances.....

http://img190.imageshack.us/img190/994/autowtf.jpg

Ok the test of the home building autodraw is up. it is in the tournament list.

You don't need to include any basic buildings. Let me know if there are issues.